SBCC Vaquero Voices

Episode 17 - Ellen O'Connor

Episode Summary

Hong and Akil welcome assistant athletic director and head of the Life Fitness Center Ellen O'Connor to the show to discuss her long, storied history at SBCC, and how the Physical Education and Athletic departments have been navigating the pandemic. Afterward, the conversation shifts to Bolognese, Hot Pot, Pastrami, the books of Jim Collins, the "Women of Troy," and the East LA College basketball team in "Last Chance U."

Episode Notes

Mentioned in this Episode:

SBCC Physical Education -

SBCC Life Fitness Center -

Bridge Tracker -

SBCC Athletics -


Bolognese Recipe -

Uniboil -

Norton's Pastrami -

Los Arroyos -

Symposium Pizza in Davis -

How the Mighty Fall by Jim Collins -

NYT Article on Golden State Warriors -

Women of Troy -

Morningside High Basketball (Lisa Leslie) -

Tournament of Champions (first held in Santa Barbara) -

Last Chance U: Basketball -

Faha Banks -

NCAA Women's Basketball Weight Room -

NCAA Women's Basketball article by Sally Jenkins -

Team of Rivals -

Episode Transcription

Captions Provided by Zoom



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Hong Lieu: hello, and welcome to another episode of SBCC Vaquero Voices - a podcast highlighting the unique voices that comprise our campus culture and how we're all working together to serve our students and the community at large, as usual, I'm joined by co-host to Akil hill.



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Akil Hill: what's good y'all?



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Hong Lieu: And today, we are honored to welcome Ellen o'connor to the show welcome Ellen.



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Ellen O'Connor: hey how are you.



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Akil Hill: Welcome Ellan.



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Hong Lieu: Thank you.



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Hong Lieu: And I will, I do have to mention that we are recording during spring break, so we are grateful and thankful that Ellen take the time during her break to record with us today, so I want to mention that off the get go and.



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Hong Lieu: Also, that you wear many hats on this campus you are the assistant athletic director for athletics, and you are also a faculty member of the PE department Is that correct.



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Hong Lieu: and on both fronts yeah go on a Q.



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Akil Hill: And a former basketball coach at SV CC correct.



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Akil Hill: True yeah yeah throw everything.



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Ellen O'Connor: yeah oh yeah.



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Ellen O'Connor: Oh yeah, especially during you know march madness.



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Hong Lieu: Exactly that's right which which yeah.



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Hong Lieu: My bracket is totally busted but.



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Ellen O'Connor: everybody else.



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Hong Lieu: I don't think anyone yeah it's survive.



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Akil Hill: eyes my eyes look just fine.



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Ellen O'Connor: But the question is, are we talking about your men's bracket or the women's bracket.



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Hong Lieu: yeah and the women's bracket has been a little more kind of the the rankings of played out a little better, but I mean.



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Hong Lieu: It is, it is interesting that I don't know if it's just this year, or just in general that that because the way the rankings go and stuff that is just hard to evaluate certain teams.



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Hong Lieu: So they I mean it's really crazy season, just like.



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Hong Lieu: blow you know both blow people's minds.



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Ellen O'Connor: yeah, especially with you know you're seeing so many teams that played very few games and others that played you know many more games and yeah really interesting tournament this year yeah on on both sides.



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Hong Lieu: And I had ucsb winning that first game, and they were so cool oh.



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Ellen O'Connor: Oh yeah well.



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Hong Lieu: Great season for them, yes, absolutely they were a great team, so I want to talk to you a little bit about.



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Hong Lieu: Just in terms of on both fronts athletics and P y'all have been at the forefront of kind of the coven kind of navigating this coven this world we live in, and start planning started for you i'm sure.



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Hong Lieu: way way long time ago, so if you could just go into that a little bit in terms of how you've had to adjust and shift and constantly kind of you know, adapt to what's going on.



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Hong Lieu: Just a little bit sure yeah we.



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Ellen O'Connor: So you know there were all kinds of meetings that we've had with colleagues throughout the state, both on the physical education front, as well as on the athletic front in terms of trying to figure out, you know how, how do you do physical education activity classes remotely.



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Ellen O'Connor: And so, in terms of pivoting last spring, where we were already partially you know face to face and then moving into an online format, and you know that was sort of one set of planning, but the real planning then was, you know how do you do this and deliver quality curriculum over.



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Ellen O'Connor: You know, a semester, and so i'm working with some folks throughout the state who are.



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Ellen O'Connor: This is actually pre pandemic, we were looking at developing a professional development.



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Ellen O'Connor: Association for California Community college physical education kinesiology dance instructors.



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Ellen O'Connor: And so the pandemics are highlighted that, and so there was lots of chatter and communication throughout the State in terms of how do we provide quality programming for our students and so that actually was really helpful in terms of kind of best practices that people were seeing.



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Ellen O'Connor: In terms of remote and then also how do we try to bring students safely back on campus if that's possible in outdoor settings it was really clear in July that we were not going to be able to be indoors and that outdoor settings.



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Ellen O'Connor: were probably Okay, under certain conditions.



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Ellen O'Connor: So, looking at them, you know how do you create those conditions, so, in our case, looking at how can we utilize the apply a stadium, to be able to deliver programming for our students in person, socially distance.



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Ellen O'Connor: You know, without the exchange of equipment, etc, and how would we clean, how would we.



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Ellen O'Connor: assess whether students should be on campus in terms of just their own health and safety so.



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Ellen O'Connor: That we are utilized healthy rosters, which is a mechanism that students identify symptoms, etc, and then they get cleared to basically come on to the campus and then are allowed that with a temperature check and some questions so then enter into the outdoor classroom.



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Hong Lieu: And you went and you launched in the fall with outdoor classes.



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Ellen O'Connor: He was kind of midway through and then ended right before thanksgiving and then we are back with some in person physical activity classes in the spring, as well.



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Hong Lieu: So just seeing that kind of roller coaster where you're on you're off and it's circumstances all external to what you were doing so you had all these plans and processes in place.



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Hong Lieu: You had really cater to the guidelines for them to a TEE and the guidelines shifted and then you have to pivot again.



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Hong Lieu: Yes, we could reconvene and talk to everyone, you know your colleagues and peers, I mean it's just it's a lot, and it really kind of.



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Hong Lieu: speaks to how how the extra mile that everybody goes to kind of serve the students and kind of serve the program itself, you know the the the values and the program learning outcomes you're trying to communicate to folks I mean you really.



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Hong Lieu: I mean, especially in this environment, you had to go the extra mile and you did you did it over and over again, and you came back with with revised guidelines and launched again, and you know so.



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Ellen O'Connor: yeah there was Plan A, B, C see 123 D E, you know.



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Ellen O'Connor: It just kind of kept going on and on.



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Ellen O'Connor: You know, really about, you know I think was the end of end of June, maybe the first part of July I ended up going to gyms were allowed to open.



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Ellen O'Connor: And so, these were you know, these were private sector gyms that were allowed to open, and so you know okay well what would that look like for the fitness Center if we were to do that so.



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Ellen O'Connor: I went and hung out at a ymca for the day and looked at how they were interpreting the California State Department of Health guidelines for.



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Ellen O'Connor: exercise and fitness centers so I went and looked at all of those steady those went and then observed how they were implementing those and you know was this something that we could do.



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Ellen O'Connor: And I was, I was kind of uncomfortable and not quite so sure that we can really do this in the in the large sense with with the fitness Center and then probably I started to do more research and you know, I was really the ventilation was really the biggest concern and so.



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Ellen O'Connor: You know, eventually, I was like you know i'm not so sure about that and then Lo and behold, it was no, no more gyms so, and if you're you know the go ahead was for outdoor only activities with limitations on number of participants also.



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Ellen O'Connor: So that's where we were in terms of you know, can we do this safely on campus and so we've been able to do that, you know Kathy o'connor who's the department chair office location department chair has just done amazing work to be able to get all the implements in place.



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Ellen O'Connor: And authorizations to be able to really provide a quality experience for our students in safe manner.



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Akil Hill: i'm curious to know it has enrollment have you guys noticed a trend if it hasn't roaming been up or down or kind of steady throughout the pandemic.



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Ellen O'Connor: activity or or lecture classes.



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Akil Hill: 149 179.



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Ellen O'Connor: Oh.



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Ellen O'Connor: Those are definitely down, you know the so what we've been using in that case, those we went to because the fitness Center is not able to be open.



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Ellen O'Connor: And we went to a remote essentially fitness Center so we're using a thing called bridge athletics, so this is a group that spent the summer researching.



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Ellen O'Connor: with other folks around the state of who has online platforms that could be utilized to again develop quality programming, where we can actually push out a variety of.



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Ellen O'Connor: workout programs to persons who either have no equipment have some equipment various levels of skill level.



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Ellen O'Connor: And then, to be able to combine that with what we're doing on canvas in terms of the academic piece to be able to again provide what we would normally do face to face in the fitness Center.



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Ellen O'Connor: And so the group that we're using called bridge bridge tracker is a mobile APP and we've had I think pretty good success with that.



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Ellen O'Connor: But but it's been challenging for students in terms of being able to enroll for courses.



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Ellen O'Connor: And you know, one of the values of of activity classes, is that these are done with other people, I mean humans, we we like to be around people, we like to hang out with others and so oftentimes.



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Ellen O'Connor: I think it's really highlighted how challenging it can be for many people to to find the motivation to be.



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Ellen O'Connor: Again, remote in and instead of doing this on your own.



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Ellen O'Connor: So trying to create some opportunity for people to connect with one another and again bridge tracker allows us to do that, although not quite in the same sense that we would normally have face to face.



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Hong Lieu: yeah it definitely does seem to be a conversation about mitigating and doing the best you can you know you're not going to get there, but if you get close enough.



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Hong Lieu: I mean i'm curious about in terms of without weights and without equipment.



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Hong Lieu: Is the resistance like.



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Hong Lieu: You looking for bands throughout your House, are you just using like a polities kind of thing where you're like positioning yourself in a certain way to kind of build that resistance, or is it just not you don't use that for like strength building and it's only for like.



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Hong Lieu: cardiovascular stuff.



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Ellen O'Connor: yeah it's mostly cardiovascular and mostly muscular endurance it's pretty hard to do with bodyweight exercises to build you know it just pure strength if you're if you're looking looking at that, but from that standpoint.



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Ellen O'Connor: You know it's funny why last spring I had a project for a couple of my student interns and they said okay.



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Ellen O'Connor: If I wanted to do strength, training and I didn't have any weights at home, how would I do that, so they created a little video.



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Ellen O'Connor: for students to use were taking my backpack and loading it with you know all you know soup cans and all kinds of different things.



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Ellen O'Connor: Put the backpack on Now I do squats to be able to utilize jugs of water or any of those kinds of things to.



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Ellen O'Connor: Create weight within your House, using the use of a broomstick to be and hanging some things off the side So how could you safely do that.



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Ellen O'Connor: And they came up with some really, really great ones I really have to say I enjoyed it one of my favorites was putting the dog on the back and then doing your push.



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Ellen O'Connor: That was always a fun one so anyway, but you know people get really creative and in terms of what they can do, and in many cases, what we found with students is that they've been like.



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Ellen O'Connor: You know I didn't think I could do this, and yet on the other hand, I have way more flexibility in terms of time, so.



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Ellen O'Connor: there's actually been a little bit of a trade off with that so some folks have found that this remote actually works okay for them.



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Ellen O'Connor: So that will probably give us some idea of what we might do I was gonna say postcode but i'm not sure that's accurate I think it's just going to be with co but in terms of maybe even continuing to provide remote programming for students.



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Ellen O'Connor: So something we hadn't thought of before, but something that we might continue we've learned some good some good lessons I think.



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Hong Lieu: The broomstick with the two jugs of water that's a classic Kung fu movie.



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Akil Hill: yeah.



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Hong Lieu: The back.



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Hong Lieu: end up the steps going up 1000 steps, or whatever yeah.



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Akil Hill: yeah but yeah but tell me this, though, you know when you would see that scene, there was a fight going to break out soon.



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Akil Hill: song carry the broomstick with the to water it was.



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Akil Hill: It was gonna be on.



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Hong Lieu: That was the delta intro training.



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Hong Lieu: montage where he's like Why do I have to do this, this is terrible and then like six months later he's like thank you, you taught.



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Hong Lieu: me everything I need.



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Hong Lieu: So.



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Hong Lieu: I mean that's The thing that I think about the most in terms of what.



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Hong Lieu: I never liked working out with other people, you know full disclosure, but it was motivating because I couldn't just slack and do nothing like sit in the corner and just like look at my phone.



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Hong Lieu: hey, why did you ask me to come here workout with you you're not gonna work out so then having a spotter and switching off REPS and sets and stuff.



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Hong Lieu: That helps so losing that but, at the same time, which you mentioned, is there's there's unforeseen benefits to all this stuff like even thinking about the zoom in.



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Hong Lieu: Environment we're now like certain committees and meetings like i'm i'm able to stay.



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Hong Lieu: informed and attend a lot more things and I would have otherwise, because I would have been like i'm not going to go to a meeting, but if it's on zoom I just click the link and have it on in the background, my video off, and I can listen.



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Hong Lieu: You know so so there's certain things that.



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Hong Lieu: We definitely do want to keep but then there's other things where it's like oh man I can't wait to get to not yeah like you said not opposed coven existence but just a a coven mitigated.



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Hong Lieu: Society were.



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Hong Lieu: Around, but we know what we know what's going on now, because there were so many unknowns at first, and you having to navigate you know these unknowns and create some Program.



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Hong Lieu: That worked around it, where people are you know together and be in a group, you know and then there's construction going on, like a kudos to you absolutely you and your team and everything that that the whole process actually you know.



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Ellen O'Connor: Well it's been, as you say you know it's really been a team effort.



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Ellen O'Connor: You both know Diego rivera's who has been really very, very instrumental for us to really navigate this this bridge tracker so we were able to.



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Ellen O'Connor: Through quite a bit of research identify different platforms, that we could use and one of the ones that we really wanted to make sure, was that there was video components to them that really highlighted proper technique.



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Ellen O'Connor: And so, and then, how do we can actually utilize the program to then build workouts so we were able to find that, and then we got the go ahead to purchase that I think was three weeks before the Semester started, and so, then it was like okay.



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Ellen O'Connor: Now we've got to utilize this to really build these programs out in San Diego was just fantastic in terms of just diving in learning it.



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Ellen O'Connor: Being able to teach us in terms of okay how, how can we do this what's available on the program that we can use what, how can we tweak it was really awesome.



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Ellen O'Connor: So Hats off to him for his input on that and, frankly, that was, I think something that really saved us and we were able to provide something valuable for students.



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Akil Hill: I think you know, I was kind of made you know, I was thinking about what you were saying to and.



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Akil Hill: it's so interesting because, in the light of the pandemic, I feel like exercising and working out is what is allowing a lot of people to keep their sanity, and all this so and and the creativity part about like.



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Akil Hill: Trying to look at things a new where you're like I don't have access to this, but you know how am I gonna still continue with what my goals are in terms of.



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Akil Hill: conditioning and exercising like you know, like I like the idea of the cans in the backpack or just getting kind of creative made me kind of think a little bit about.



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Akil Hill: You know I think was World War Two where people are like okay food was getting scarce and people started to you know, do the Hoover gardens and stuff like that it's just that type type of creativity in the midst of adversity is always refreshing to to kind of hear hear about you know.



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Ellen O'Connor: yeah I think it's it's it's the old adage you know necessity is the mother of invention.



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Ellen O'Connor: And you know, we see that so often and it's been really interesting to see how creative, as I said, students have.



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Ellen O'Connor: been on the same hand that you know that they might have taken say an hour to go workout.



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Ellen O'Connor: Many people find that well now i'm not having to travel i'm not having to do these other things, so I can take these smaller segments of activity.



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Ellen O'Connor: And and put them in where I hadn't before and that's actually been I think something that's been helpful for students in terms of I can maybe manage my time a little differently on here.



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Ellen O'Connor: So that's been good, but the thing that we have absolutely seen with our students is the use of physical activity to manage stress and the amount of stress that our students are under and.



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Ellen O'Connor: How beneficial many have found exercise to be as a mechanism for just.



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Ellen O'Connor: Finding some meat time to be able to have that sense of accomplishment.



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Ellen O'Connor: You know that I, but you know i'm not sitting in front of a computer you know, I was always a little bit hesitant about.



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Ellen O'Connor: The use of technology for exercising because it's like okay let's get away from some technology and I realized, you know that you know that ship sailed Ellen you're gonna have.



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Ellen O'Connor: yeah let's yeah let's let's get into the real world hills so.



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Ellen O'Connor: And it's actually this this program that we use it's actually quite Nice because it's you can you can.



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Ellen O'Connor: It can be right there with you as your guide or you, it can be a little bit in the background, so you know, depending on what your own relationship is with technology, you can sort of utilize a lot of the features or or not, and so it can still be useful.



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Hong Lieu: yeah that's a great point you raised, because I mean i've been able to keep up with doing some exercise just because.



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Hong Lieu: I was always very excuse driven you know okay i'll do it, but Oh, this is this is coming up oh I gotta do this whole i'm so tired from doing that.



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Hong Lieu: But now I there's no excuse there's literally no no excuse I could make up that would that would be you know take take precedence over we're taking care of myself and and you're right when you're exercising the internal monologue like your brain is always running to yourself of.



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Ellen O'Connor: course.



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Hong Lieu: But your internal monologue will exercising.



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Hong Lieu: it's different for me than working you know it's my working monologue and my exercise monologue makes it a monologue is a lot more fun to be around you know, like.



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Hong Lieu: yeah it's tired i'm tired he gives me a break, when I need a break.



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Hong Lieu: You know, like it's much more paste and measured we're working brain is like Okay, I need to get away from this for a while, so.



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Ellen O'Connor: yeah absolutely can.



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Hong Lieu: cosign that 100%.



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Ellen O'Connor: We I did read a book over the pandemic or a few, but one of the ones was atomic habits and.



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Ellen O'Connor: The the author on there, James clear talks a lot about habit stacking and the concept of.



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Ellen O'Connor: So, for example, well here's one, so I wanted to add push ups, I said okay so i'm going to i'm going to try to start my day out with doing some you know just simple pushups nothing too dramatic so.



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Ellen O'Connor: I decided to add those to you stack them to a habit that you do well, I make coffee in the morning, so now, when I push the button on the coffee maker.



00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:12.840

Ellen O'Connor: I go and I do push ups until it beeps that it's it's ready it's usually about a minute and so sense of accomplishment finished it try to do one more than I did the day before.



00:19:14.520 --> 00:19:19.950

Ellen O'Connor: But it's an easy habits, so now that habits as part of what I do and so.



00:19:21.330 --> 00:19:28.560

Ellen O'Connor: He has a couple of strategies that he uses that are, I think, are really pretty useful so we've incorporated that into.



00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:33.450

Ellen O'Connor: Some of the modules that we do on canvas around in the p 149 classes.



00:19:34.350 --> 00:19:43.050

Ellen O'Connor: Or the LIFE fitness classes and and that's been helpful students seem to have sort of seemed to have resonated a bit with them this idea of habit stacking so.



00:19:43.650 --> 00:19:56.970

Ellen O'Connor: You never know, maybe when you click on the next zoom session that you have in the background, when the session starts you, you know you knock out, you know 10 push ups or something and then or every 15 minutes or you know, however, you want to do it.



00:19:58.320 --> 00:19:59.820

Akil Hill: let's get it on you heard it there's.



00:20:01.350 --> 00:20:02.370

Akil Hill: no excuses.



00:20:02.610 --> 00:20:12.210

Hong Lieu: I mean honestly it's something that I started doing during this pandemic was push ups and I i'm up to like any three sets of 20 now we're when I started, I was literally doing like on my knees with.



00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:13.950

Hong Lieu: What.



00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:28.560

Hong Lieu: kinda sorta i'm still i'm still skeptical than my form is good, and I still find myself kind of like bending in weird ways, but yeah it has it has been nice, although if you have to do 10 right now with with with your eyes watching i'd be terrified don't think I could do.



00:20:30.030 --> 00:20:32.400

Akil Hill: So don't worry I want I don't want to see that visual on i'm.



00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:40.440

Hong Lieu: Good but, but you know the habit stacking that you know it's a concept, using a lot of a lot of fields, you know programming, you know that idea of iterative iterative improvement.



00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:46.200

Hong Lieu: We run you know you keep building on the St on you have initial program to keep building and a little pieces here they're building pieces there.



00:20:46.530 --> 00:20:57.420

Hong Lieu: And it's just it's a good that's very good kind of a sound way of thinking, where take take your team as little tweaks to it and it's fresh becomes fresh after a while you know if it's new to you kind of thing so.



00:20:58.020 --> 00:21:00.000

Ellen O'Connor: And it's Okay, if you count by two instead of one.



00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.290

Hong Lieu: i'll do i'll do 50 pushups then.



00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:06.900

Akil Hill: I go by fives, though.



00:21:10.050 --> 00:21:13.050

Hong Lieu: So I didn't want to touch on as long, along with the.



00:21:13.080 --> 00:21:21.630

Hong Lieu: P classes you're also our athletic director, so, if you would just go, you know touch on it briefly the thinking process or the process behind you know athletics.



00:21:22.230 --> 00:21:29.070

Hong Lieu: Through the fall to the spring to now not having it not doing any a spring season just kind of thinking their process behind that a little bit.



00:21:29.490 --> 00:21:45.960

Ellen O'Connor: Sure um you know I think you know paramount is always been you know student and instructor safety, and so you know we always are adhering to the guidelines that are there, and of course the nc double a is put out, you know their set of guidelines that.



00:21:47.130 --> 00:21:56.280

Ellen O'Connor: Which is the the Governing Board for California Community college athletics, they have what's referred to as the working group, which is the group that has put together these.



00:21:58.890 --> 00:22:07.620

Ellen O'Connor: sort of plans and templates, for you know, could we have fall sports probably not if what about if we move the fall sports into what was being referred to as spring one.



00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:15.390

Ellen O'Connor: And then spring to would have been the spring sports so delaying the start of seasons and pushing them into May and June that sort of thing.



00:22:16.620 --> 00:22:29.370

Ellen O'Connor: But you know all of that is predicated on testing and so it's all predicated you know, once you get into a situation where you have any kind of face to face whether whether you're going to be competing.



00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:36.660

Ellen O'Connor: or you're going to have more so, even if it's practice sessions, where you have more interaction, you know where there's less than six feet.



00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:44.490

Ellen O'Connor: or persons are exchanging materials so, for example, a ball or something along those lines, you know now you're looking at at doing testing.



00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:52.620

Ellen O'Connor: And that testing is much more frequent and we don't have testing on campus many of the programs that have been.



00:22:53.550 --> 00:23:10.050

Ellen O'Connor: Implementing the second spring two that have chosen to participate in spring to have either testing on their campuses because in many cases it's once a week or, if you have other events so, for example, your support staff might be getting tested multiple times a week.



00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:16.230

Ellen O'Connor: But if you're doing indoor sports and some of those it's it's definitely weekly testing and so.



00:23:17.010 --> 00:23:23.580

Ellen O'Connor: prior to any kind of event or contest, you would have to have 48 hours, you would have to have your test results 48 hours ahead of time.



00:23:23.970 --> 00:23:39.870

Ellen O'Connor: which then means you have to schedule and because we don't have any of that on our campus and it's you know, relying on the Community testing that makes it really a challenge for our students to meet those guidelines, excuse me meet those guidelines and then for us to be able to.



00:23:41.670 --> 00:23:50.880

Ellen O'Connor: make certain that they were in a safe position to be able to do that, and then, of course, you know if you're traveling now you've got instead of one van you're taking three bands.



00:23:52.020 --> 00:23:59.760

Ellen O'Connor: Because of social distancing and things so a lot of logistics that went into that I think we're going to be able to in the late spring.



00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:18.090

Ellen O'Connor: Probably late April looks as though we may be able to do some scrimmaging other institutions and so we're trying to get that in line and again much of that is having testing schedules and then making certain that those students are tested no tests, no participation.



00:24:19.860 --> 00:24:25.710

Ellen O'Connor: So it's um you know the target moves a little bit seems like daily.



00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:34.920

Ellen O'Connor: The good news is we are trending I think in the in the right directions and so hopefully we can get back to some opportunity for students to participate pretty soon.



00:24:36.060 --> 00:24:39.540

Hong Lieu: yeah just just looking at the testing process, how much of that has changed, I mean.



00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:49.830

Hong Lieu: Early on, you know early in the back in the fall and stuff when the when the labs were backed up or it was taking two or three weeks to get results back, I mean this was before the nba had that saliva test I got spread out.



00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:54.570

Hong Lieu: You know that has changed a lot in terms of allowing teams to do more rapid tests and get results quicker.



00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:58.050

Hong Lieu: Sure cuz you know waiting for lab stuff so so yeah thinking about that logistical stuff.



00:24:58.530 --> 00:25:09.630

Hong Lieu: That I mean I knew the testing was it was an issue but I didn't even think about the fact that it was because it was dependent on on lab results coming back and getting you know be having these windows where everything would work out yeah.



00:25:10.410 --> 00:25:18.390

Hong Lieu: It definitely is a lot to kind of take in and kind of a lot of hoops to jump through you know because I, you know if he asked if he asked the students, they want to play, but.



00:25:20.130 --> 00:25:29.220

Ellen O'Connor: yeah and you know that's it's what they do you know, and you know that it's it's it's how you know it's just part of the challenge you know, in terms of.



00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:34.890

Ellen O'Connor: it's like anything else you know we we practice we practice, and then we have game Day, which is like your test.



00:25:35.280 --> 00:25:42.420

Ellen O'Connor: You know how much of what you did in practice, did you really absorb, how can I apply it, this is a unique in a novel setting that i'm in now, how do I.



00:25:42.750 --> 00:25:49.170

Ellen O'Connor: How do I use those skills to be able to you know meet this challenge, so yeah we'd love for our student athletes to be able to compete and.



00:25:49.980 --> 00:26:06.750

Ellen O'Connor: You know, are trying to work towards that, to be able to do that in some way, shape or form, there is a an opportunity for scrimmages as opposed to a full on game, but you can do scrimmages or inter squad scrimmages but again it's all predicated on on having appropriate testing.



00:26:07.620 --> 00:26:15.090

Akil Hill: Has there has there been any talks surrounding maybe bringing giving it a testing site on campus.



00:26:17.340 --> 00:26:21.180

Ellen O'Connor: we're all for it i'd love to see testing on campus.



00:26:22.710 --> 00:26:36.660

Ellen O'Connor: And you know, there is some cost that's involved with some of that and it's I think it's a it's a cost that's well worth it, particularly when you have, at this point we're probably looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of if you were to consider the spring sports, that would be.



00:26:38.100 --> 00:26:46.350

Ellen O'Connor: have the opportunity to scrimmage and and want to take advantage of that you know you're probably looking somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 800 to 1000 tests.



00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:49.740

Ellen O'Connor: To be able to fully do that.



00:26:51.030 --> 00:27:00.990

Ellen O'Connor: But even still I mean i'm a big in favor of testing even you know when we get back into so in the fall campus testing those kinds of things, even with even with.



00:27:02.190 --> 00:27:08.310

Ellen O'Connor: It seemed as though, even with immunization and with a vaccine you'd still need to have testing so.



00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:23.760

Ellen O'Connor: Hopefully we can do that it's it's I know it's being discussed, where it stands in terms of approval, I don't know, but I do know there have been discussions about trying to bring a there are several companies that do this on college campuses.



00:27:24.450 --> 00:27:29.580

Hong Lieu: And I know that as part of the her funds that were recently passed by the Federal Government.



00:27:30.300 --> 00:27:36.270

Hong Lieu: We are ranking kind of programs, to use the money on, and I know testing is one of the programs is that is in that ranking.



00:27:36.780 --> 00:27:47.100

Hong Lieu: list so just depends, if that ends up being one of the programs that's passed through but yeah you hope it would get it done because it would make the back end infrastructure of at least the testing aspect of it, because there are many pillars to to consider.



00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:56.310

Hong Lieu: But interesting aspect is is a big one, because in terms of that gives you like a clean bill to not be like free wheeling but at least have that baseline where you can.



00:27:56.340 --> 00:27:57.840

Hong Lieu: You know now you know.



00:27:58.050 --> 00:28:00.420

Hong Lieu: If you follow guidelines, you will be okay, you know.



00:28:00.450 --> 00:28:03.990

Ellen O'Connor: yeah well, especially because there's so much asymptomatic Square.



00:28:04.410 --> 00:28:08.430

Ellen O'Connor: Do you know you've got to have a way to be able to track that down.



00:28:09.090 --> 00:28:16.710

Hong Lieu: And and asymptomatic spread is more prevalent and folks that are you know younger and healthier and our athletes are the youngest and the healthiest of.



00:28:17.130 --> 00:28:20.820

Hong Lieu: Their their demographic so in terms of if someone's getting a Sim.



00:28:21.300 --> 00:28:29.190

Hong Lieu: asymptomatic it's gonna be it's gonna be them, and so I always and, if you look at other sports I you know, like there has not been a sport that has gone on to play.



00:28:29.520 --> 00:28:37.980

Hong Lieu: That has not had some sort of you know incident or infection or outbreak on some level so that that has to be some of the ways, you know ways as well, because there are still a lot of unknowns I mean.



00:28:38.250 --> 00:28:43.680

Hong Lieu: The myo card is stuff was coming out and I and there's still not a lot known about that so so I definitely think that.



00:28:44.190 --> 00:28:49.110

Hong Lieu: You know they you know y'all took a more cautious approach decided to wait and see how things are going.



00:28:49.470 --> 00:29:03.630

Hong Lieu: I commend you for that as well, because you know the pressure around you is probably play play play just make it happen, you know, like if we were a business he'd be like just do it and worry about the consequences later got a thing, but y'all really did it right, you know, like yeah kudos.



00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:10.530

Ellen O'Connor: Well, and I, you know I think also when you when you consider we, you know as an athletic staff we meet weekly on these things and.



00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:19.920

Ellen O'Connor: You know, one of the core values, not only of our institution, but of the three cta is the health and welfare of our student athletes and you know.



00:29:20.910 --> 00:29:36.930

Ellen O'Connor: we're in a pandemic, so you know how, how do we really demonstrate that as well, and I know our colleagues also feel the same way on there, and so, when you have testing available, and you can meet those guidelines it makes the competitive part.



00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:42.660

Ellen O'Connor: More doable but without that it's you know you just read again.



00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:46.020

Akil Hill: yeah yeah.



00:29:47.970 --> 00:29:53.160

Hong Lieu: All right, thank you, thank you for for illuminating the picture on on on those fronts.



00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:01.380

Hong Lieu: can be a little more illuminating but more on your on the personal side um what what brought you to SPC or What was your path bcc like.



00:30:02.670 --> 00:30:04.080

Hong Lieu: You know, over the years.



00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.130

Ellen O'Connor: Well it's an interesting one, I thought it was but.



00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:21.120

Ellen O'Connor: So I was finishing up my graduate work at uc Davis, and the woman, that I was coaching with so I was the assistant coach for the women's basketball team at uc Davis.



00:30:21.630 --> 00:30:32.730

Ellen O'Connor: And the Gal That was the head coach was dating a fellow a guy in who lived in carpinteria So here we are, you know near sacramento up at uc Davis and she's dating this guy down in carpinteria who happened to be.



00:30:33.450 --> 00:30:45.630

Ellen O'Connor: The cousin of margo handles men who was an academic counselor at Santa Barbara city college for years and years I think she retired probably gosh maybe early 90s.



00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:53.220

Ellen O'Connor: Anyway, so he they were dating and she came back to the office, one day, and she said, you know.



00:30:54.030 --> 00:31:00.900

Ellen O'Connor: i'm looking at this job at Santa Barbara city college and i'm thinking about applying for it, but you know, really, you should apply for it.



00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:10.170

Ellen O'Connor: Because I was studying exercise physiology I was working in an adult fitness program at the time I was working in the school of medicine time up at uc Davis.



00:31:10.530 --> 00:31:22.230

Ellen O'Connor: And so the job was a women's coach of either basketball track and field or volleyball and then fitness Center director and physical education instructor.



00:31:23.430 --> 00:31:42.720

Ellen O'Connor: So she hands me the job announcement, I thought oh my God this sounds great it's what I do now, except it's all under one roof, and so i'm apply for the job, and here I am 30 some odd years later, so yeah so I I, I may have heard about it had.



00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:46.710

Ellen O'Connor: Pam kill not been dating RON Fisher at the time.



00:31:49.170 --> 00:31:52.650

Hong Lieu: Those little wrinkles anticipate that do make the stories interesting you know, like.



00:31:52.650 --> 00:32:00.060

Hong Lieu: yeah How does you know the butterfly effect, how did these T forces come come together and little little things like that that's great.



00:32:01.320 --> 00:32:05.280

Ellen O'Connor: yeah so that that was that's what got me down to Santa Barbara city college.



00:32:06.510 --> 00:32:19.080

Hong Lieu: I do also want to ask you, since this is a women's history month and you know this episode will air in time to get there and entire March, but as a woman in the kinesiology physical education field, I mean.



00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:30.720

Hong Lieu: I guess, if you would just talk about that a little bit I mean i'm sure it was not great, at times, but i'm sure it was also great at other time, so it was I mean you know if you could open up on that a little bit.



00:32:31.050 --> 00:32:31.590




00:32:32.760 --> 00:32:40.050

Ellen O'Connor: On the great side I had just some amazing mentors along the way, that were both as a high school student.



00:32:41.070 --> 00:32:50.640

Ellen O'Connor: And then, also as a college student, you know, women who were in the field who were just great role models in terms of.



00:32:51.390 --> 00:32:59.640

Ellen O'Connor: How they ran their programs, but also their contributions to larger issues, and so there, there are opportunities to be involved in.



00:33:00.390 --> 00:33:08.370

Ellen O'Connor: Governance typically within either the athletic organization or the physical education organization, so you know, on both sides.



00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:15.030

Ellen O'Connor: kinesiology physical education and athletics I just had really wonderful mentors female mentors.



00:33:15.990 --> 00:33:21.390

Ellen O'Connor: And of course you don't see too many of that now, you know when when we start to look at the nc double a tournament has been.



00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:27.600

Ellen O'Connor: women's tournament has is kind of highlighted some of those things in terms of the decline of women administrators.



00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:48.360

Ellen O'Connor: In athletics, so you know back in Title nine days that you know, and I can 72 about 90% of women's teams were coached by women and now that's down to about 43% and you see fewer and fewer women in as athletic directors in the three seats away, I think there are maybe 10.



00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:53.130

Ellen O'Connor: And, and it might be less than that so.



00:33:54.420 --> 00:34:04.650

Ellen O'Connor: So that's kind of the negative side of things, so you know it's for me, as I said, it's been a wonderful career i've just literally loved every second of it.



00:34:05.340 --> 00:34:19.800

Ellen O'Connor: Any other challenges along the way, but I think oftentimes you know the the big picture is getting to work with student athletes who are just incredible sources of energy and enthusiasm and insight is is really a privilege.



00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:34.440

Hong Lieu: yeah yeah I mean in terms of what we're learning into diversity equity inclusion like you want folks that represent kind of will you know you want to bounce representation so so if you're a women, you know women's basketball player.



00:34:35.190 --> 00:34:50.220

Hong Lieu: it's a benefit to be coached by women, she understands the process a little more, I mean some some of those guys are taskmasters and they might not understand in terms of wear and tear on certain joints and muscles is change depending on yeah so.



00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:57.810

Ellen O'Connor: I think you know, sometimes you see that with either gender, you know that that oftentimes you know.



00:34:59.610 --> 00:35:12.120

Ellen O'Connor: Some outstanding male coaches of women's sports some some really outstanding male coaches and women's sports also so I you know I think it's one of those things where, again I think representation is enormously important.



00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:30.660

Ellen O'Connor: And, and I know how much that benefited me, so I all I had all women coaches, there were women athletic directors, so in terms of my own path, could I see myself doing it, yes, actually it wasn't what I set out to do, but it's what eventually happened.



00:35:32.010 --> 00:35:45.000

Ellen O'Connor: You know I always laugh, because I was actually going to go into corporate fitness and so I went into to uc Davis to pursue a degree in exercise science and look at going into the corporate fitness world, and when I got there.



00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:57.120

Ellen O'Connor: The women's basketball coach said to me, we had known each other and she said hey i'm looking for an assistant jv women's basketball coach this is back in the days, where they actually had junior varsity teams.



00:35:57.690 --> 00:36:12.030

Ellen O'Connor: And she said i'm looking for a jv women's basketball assistant coach and I said Oh, you know I don't think i'm gonna have time it's you know I you know i'm here going to graduate school where you don't blah blah blah, she said, well, it pays and I said it does and I thought you know.



00:36:13.470 --> 00:36:30.720

Ellen O'Connor: You know she said it pays $400 and I thought well that's $400 that I don't have i'll do it, so it turned out that it was like pennies on the hour, but but best $400 I ever made completely changed my the course of my.



00:36:32.130 --> 00:36:36.720

Ellen O'Connor: academic career and then also professional career so what's good.



00:36:39.210 --> 00:36:39.900

Akil Hill: You know I.



00:36:41.130 --> 00:36:53.010

Akil Hill: You know I work with athletics, because I do athletic eligibility and I can say that you know ellen's definitely has is is a ocean of knowledge and understanding and.



00:36:53.550 --> 00:37:02.940

Akil Hill: I remember when I first got the position and and I was you know just like any job when you first get you know you kind of struggled through certain areas, you know and.



00:37:03.750 --> 00:37:12.060

Akil Hill: I just remember you know learning the process and they're like Okay, so now, you call up, and I think you were actually the interim director at that time.



00:37:13.200 --> 00:37:26.460

Akil Hill: Because Ryan burn had just left and so then they're like okay so then you're calling up the athletic director and they they're going to come and double check your work, and I remember Ellen was the director that time and she came up.



00:37:27.810 --> 00:37:31.860

Akil Hill: And man she had her earphones he had a little pencil she was.



00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:39.180

Akil Hill: Just like going through what I was going through and with with detail and precision and so.



00:37:40.470 --> 00:37:43.080

Akil Hill: I just have to take a moment just thank you for.



00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:51.930

Akil Hill: You know, doing what you're doing in and women with women sports and being in that space, because you know it's so Mel saturated and.



00:37:52.350 --> 00:38:01.170

Akil Hill: And you know it's just it's such a great thing when you see representation in true representation of someone who's in the job knows a job, the ins and outs.



00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:11.100

Akil Hill: And can school you, you know, and so I just remember, I have to say thank you for that, because there was one moment I remember, I was struggling on like I don't know if i'm ever going to understand this and you were like.



00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:15.840

Akil Hill: No you're going to get it, this is the part of the process, you got to believe, and she was coaching me upon.



00:38:17.250 --> 00:38:19.980

Akil Hill: You know she wasn't she wasn't getting paid pennies on the.



00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:25.260

Akil Hill: For the hour for that, but again like it came definitely came into.



00:38:26.790 --> 00:38:33.750

Akil Hill: play for me, I saw her coaching skills and then, when she left, I felt better, so I was like she just she just straight coach me up right now.



00:38:34.710 --> 00:38:37.950

Ellen O'Connor: Well, as you know that stuff is so detailed.



00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:39.150

Ellen O'Connor: athletic eligibility.



00:38:39.210 --> 00:38:43.980

Ellen O'Connor: Oh, my gosh yeah so thank you for the work that you do with that because it's.



00:38:44.850 --> 00:38:54.810

Ellen O'Connor: You got it you got to go down the rabbit hole on those things when you're in that athletic eligibility because you're looking at timeframes and you're looking at units and you're looking at the.



00:38:55.110 --> 00:39:06.810

Ellen O'Connor: duplication of things and Okay, which student was that the one student yeah no I I hear you it's an acute you do a great job with that, and you know that that athletic.



00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:17.400

Ellen O'Connor: Eligibility you know I always trust, when you say this person is eligible they're eligible you know you haven't missed anything, all the way through so.



00:39:18.570 --> 00:39:20.850

Ellen O'Connor: Thank you for all that really makes a big difference.



00:39:21.180 --> 00:39:23.370

Akil Hill: Oh, you got two years left man come on let's get you in.



00:39:25.560 --> 00:39:36.690

Hong Lieu: I wish I wanted to play basketball so bad that I am too short to play my position i'm like a powerful, more of a post a power forward and yeah I don't have the skills to i'm like Allen Iverson will practice.



00:39:38.370 --> 00:39:42.390

Hong Lieu: But I, but I do you know what the coaching it is, it is two sides of it, you know there's the x's and o's side.



00:39:42.720 --> 00:39:55.320

Hong Lieu: And there's just a mentorship communication ability and and just talking to you right now island, I mean I I can feel that that communication is genuine and pure and then that's what reaches people you can't do that kind of coaching you, you know, like there's.



00:39:55.530 --> 00:39:58.830

Hong Lieu: Not a motivational speaker class and said that that can really get you.



00:39:58.830 --> 00:40:05.190

Hong Lieu: In that vibe to kind of to convince people what you're saying you really just have to believe it, and then they they believe what you believe so.



00:40:05.520 --> 00:40:15.420

Hong Lieu: I mean if the x's and o's is solid as well because listen to you talk about all the eligibility requirements, I know you know that my new ship very well, but then that that more you know esoteric.



00:40:15.810 --> 00:40:21.810

Hong Lieu: unquantifiable that that X factor I mean that that's what great coaches have, and I can feel it here today's.



00:40:21.990 --> 00:40:23.610

Akil Hill: yeah she definitely has it.



00:40:24.510 --> 00:40:25.290

Akil Hill: Well, we definitely.



00:40:25.350 --> 00:40:27.030

Ellen O'Connor: We evolve over time let's put.



00:40:27.030 --> 00:40:27.540

it that way.



00:40:28.950 --> 00:40:32.700

Ellen O'Connor: i've learned a lot over my years and I think if I had to go back and.



00:40:32.700 --> 00:40:39.420

Ellen O'Connor: do some things differently with coaching I probably would you know the just the you know relationships are so important and oftentimes.



00:40:40.470 --> 00:40:51.330

Ellen O'Connor: You know stress and other things you know, sometimes you're not your best self, and you know you just you you gotta you have to evolve to be better understand yourself more and be able to then.



00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:58.440

Ellen O'Connor: You know, deal with situations where you can be you know fully engaged, I think, from an emotional point of view and not be.



00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:06.510

Ellen O'Connor: moved in one way or the other, you know positively or negatively, you know to be solid in that.



00:41:07.560 --> 00:41:10.080

Ellen O'Connor: Particularly for young persons who are really counting on that.



00:41:11.100 --> 00:41:17.490

Ellen O'Connor: On that guidance, so thank you for that, but it's like I said it's an evolution each and every day.



00:41:17.850 --> 00:41:20.670

Hong Lieu: You do thousand steps with the broomstick and the two buckets of water.



00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:21.870

Akil Hill: Yes, he.



00:41:21.990 --> 00:41:24.150

Hong Lieu: Did Yes, he did 1000 stuff he said yeah.



00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:25.320

Akil Hill: Definitely yeah yes.



00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.310

Hong Lieu: Moving on to a good eatin.



00:41:30.330 --> 00:41:36.960

Hong Lieu: This is our food section of the show where we highlight any meals you've had recently food you've cooked restaurants, you been to that have given you life.



00:41:37.560 --> 00:41:38.400

Ellen O'Connor: Well, yes.



00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:43.170

Ellen O'Connor: I did it's interesting because i'm not a big cook.



00:41:44.250 --> 00:41:48.810

Ellen O'Connor: You know I don't I don't do that quite a bit in the sense I like to cook but i'm not you know just.



00:41:49.830 --> 00:42:03.720

Ellen O'Connor: Usually when i'm hungry, I just want to sit down and meet, and so, restaurants and let's face it, Santa Barbara has some amazing restaurants and lots of them I heard a statistic once years ago that you know you could eat out every day in Santa Barbara every every day of the week.



00:42:04.560 --> 00:42:13.650

Ellen O'Connor: You know, and never eat the same restaurant twice in a year, or some such thing, so you know eating my way through Santa Barbara would be probably a fantastic at retirement gig.



00:42:16.020 --> 00:42:20.400

Ellen O'Connor: But in terms of food, a friend of mine over the.



00:42:21.570 --> 00:42:30.360

Ellen O'Connor: holiday, we were talking about food and that's her thing, and this person had gone on a trip to Italy and so had this.



00:42:33.030 --> 00:42:40.260

Ellen O'Connor: What is it that Milanese sauce that at an Italian restaurants and where and ask the chef chef you know for the recipe.



00:42:40.740 --> 00:42:51.120

Ellen O'Connor: So I said okay so anyway, she sent it to me, and so this Milanese oh my gosh it's fantastic and easy easy easy easy to make and so.



00:42:52.020 --> 00:43:00.600

Ellen O'Connor: So I did that a couple of times and it was just it was wonderful really, really good So if you like, an Italian bellamy's i'd be happy to share the recipe with you.



00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:10.290

Hong Lieu: Is there, like a secret wrinkle to it that really makes it amazing or is it just kind of a confluence of everything coming together like it was not agreed that sticks out to you like Oh, is that Tara God I didn't know you would put Aragon, or something like that or.



00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:20.490

Ellen O'Connor: Well uh it, you know I think it's it's it's the combination of things, but I did discover that in the process of it, I made it twice and the first time by accident, I was.



00:43:21.270 --> 00:43:32.820

Ellen O'Connor: What did I done, I had so was an onion and carrot and some other vegetables and you're supposed chopped them up, and I just threw him in a cuisinart and I kind of did a little bit too much, and so they weren't quite pureed, but they were.



00:43:33.210 --> 00:43:44.220

Ellen O'Connor: let's just say they were really finely chopped so but that batch was better than when I actually did it and I just chopped him with a nice and so, and there were bigger chunks of that sort of thing so.



00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:54.570

Ellen O'Connor: I think it might be the wine that is in it that makes it really come together, I think that might be the secret ingredient of it so.



00:43:55.410 --> 00:44:06.180

Ellen O'Connor: And i'm not somebody that I ever really cook with wine or any of that sort of thing, and so that was always kind of Nice it's just you know you just dump it about a cup and a half of good red wine into it and it's delightful.



00:44:08.130 --> 00:44:22.920

Akil Hill: that's that's always my thing to write when i'm making that trying the recipe, where you kind of go off the beaten path by accident not like intentionally and then it comes out really good and then you try to make it again and you follow it to a TEE and does it taste.



00:44:23.250 --> 00:44:31.470

Akil Hill: yeah like it doesn't taste as good as he did the first time and I always wonder why is it like that, like you know, is it maybe the expectation of trying it the first time.



00:44:31.860 --> 00:44:42.510

Akil Hill: Or is it like I just I do, that a lot, you know I do, that a lot where i'm just like I mess up a little bit, but it comes out better than when i'm following the instructions I don't know, maybe me.



00:44:43.350 --> 00:44:52.680

Ellen O'Connor: Well, this one has ground pork in it and pancetta also so and that gives it a really nice a nice flavor as well, so.



00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:59.760

Ellen O'Connor: yeah I don't know i'm with you, you know oftentimes I make something and it's you know I don't know whether it's the anticipation, like you know I.



00:45:00.690 --> 00:45:10.800

Ellen O'Connor: really wanted to make this, and so I do and it's totally fantastic maybe it's not, but it seems like it is, and then the second time, maybe there's a little luster taken off of it, so I don't know I don't know if that's really what the.



00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:19.680

Ellen O'Connor: deal is on that, but it's fine, nonetheless, are they are they review cooks do you like to cook quite a bit.



00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:27.000

Hong Lieu: I love to cook but I don't like to clean so that's that's what throws a wrench into things like I like I like to eat the food I made.



00:45:27.390 --> 00:45:37.620

Hong Lieu: But I don't like to clean and that's why I like restaurants so much they clean up for me, so they take care of that stuff for me so yeah doesn't mean cookie more but in general the cleaning part of still kind of vaccine, so I don't cook as often as i'd like.



00:45:38.130 --> 00:45:42.870

Ellen O'Connor: yeah I have to laugh, because my sister somebody asked her What do you do during the pandemic and she said dishes.



00:45:45.660 --> 00:45:46.890

Akil Hill: I think that's real.



00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:53.460

Hong Lieu: home all of commercials were like it makes her hands off like I know my home all of like that's a marketing works when you like, with your hands like oh my God that's a problem.



00:45:54.090 --> 00:45:56.580

Ellen O'Connor: yeah lots and lots of dishes yeah.



00:45:58.650 --> 00:46:01.260

Akil Hill: So her So what do you got for us what's your pick.



00:46:02.100 --> 00:46:07.440

Hong Lieu: My pick for this week is I was thinking about our conversation about Korean bbq last episode.



00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:09.720

Hong Lieu: And I was looking for that kind of calm, you know eating.



00:46:09.750 --> 00:46:18.870

Hong Lieu: And I was thinking about hotpot Chinese hotpot, which is another kind of thing where there's a ball in the middle, with soup, and you didn't meet in there and eat it so it kind of shabu shabu but it's like you know.



00:46:19.680 --> 00:46:25.020

Hong Lieu: it's like a spicy broth but there's a place in galena called you know boil and they do individual hotpot servings.



00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:26.160

Hong Lieu: So you know you there.



00:46:26.430 --> 00:46:36.300

Hong Lieu: yeah and you get it to go and it travels reasonably well so and they have a barbershop attached with with the same owner, so you can get boba tea and hot pot, so I ordered that recently, and it was.



00:46:36.570 --> 00:46:38.880

Hong Lieu: It was kind of like a nice little like taste of like.



00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:44.100

Hong Lieu: brought me back a little bit, just like that calm you eating hot pot is like a holiday get together kind of meal.



00:46:44.370 --> 00:46:55.920

Hong Lieu: Like family to go out, they all go get hot pot, you know, and when you graduate high school you gotta go get hot pot and stuff like that so so eating that hot pot, and like drinking some boba I was like Oh, this is like la like hanging out like.



00:46:57.060 --> 00:47:06.450

Hong Lieu: feeling, you know you're looking for those little escapes and that's where he talks about Ellen would like cooking and eating a good meal like it's a little escape or like your exercise brain like my eating brains friendly to.



00:47:06.690 --> 00:47:08.520

Hong Lieu: My brains family my family.



00:47:08.730 --> 00:47:09.960

Hong Lieu: My work brain is hostile so.



00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:21.600

Hong Lieu: By eating brain was like it was happy, he was like oh yeah a little bit of spice like you know these these like little seafood balls which is pretty like seafood pink SLIME but I love it cuz I was raised on it so like yeah it's.



00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:31.890

Hong Lieu: Nice so i'll put i'll put a link to them and showing us to give them some love they do online ordering so you can you can put an order online pick it up when it's ready unit oil and fresh to the barbershop this next.



00:47:32.430 --> 00:47:35.010

Akil Hill: Nice, I went there with a Dean.



00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:47.520

Akil Hill: Dean ovens once and I was really good, I think I got the lamb pot and super it transported me to It made me feel like I was somewhere like.



00:47:47.580 --> 00:47:48.780

Hong Lieu: We did you get.



00:47:48.810 --> 00:47:49.320

Hong Lieu: Do you remember what.



00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.770

Akil Hill: It was I forget what's what were the options.



00:47:53.490 --> 00:47:54.570

Hong Lieu: Coming spicy one.



00:47:54.750 --> 00:47:55.560

Akil Hill: I didn't get that one.



00:47:55.710 --> 00:47:56.130

Akil Hill: Not the.



00:47:56.970 --> 00:47:59.520

Hong Lieu: season was like a Tom yum and there's like a couple of those.



00:47:59.580 --> 00:48:08.310

Akil Hill: yeah I think I got the regular spicy on that and stuff and I forgot what he ordered but yeah man I left I left there quiet please, and then we did or the boba to.



00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:09.900

Akil Hill: yeah so we were.



00:48:10.020 --> 00:48:19.350

Akil Hill: We were doing the boba and the pilot the same time, so just for the listeners it's hot pot not hot pockets so don't go out here, you know, like it's it's definitely.



00:48:20.610 --> 00:48:23.130

Akil Hill: it's worth trying at least once it's really good.



00:48:24.180 --> 00:48:28.800

Hong Lieu: yeah and how to use the more like a mainland Chinese kind of celebrating I grew up more with like shabu shabu.



00:48:29.250 --> 00:48:35.880

Hong Lieu: shabu shabu and a lot, like the Japanese Italian yaki so I came to hop out later in life, so I didn't know about like you know all the split broth and stuff.



00:48:36.120 --> 00:48:39.870

Hong Lieu: But it's been nice to kind of kind of rediscover that part of Chinese culture for me.



00:48:40.290 --> 00:48:50.790

Hong Lieu: In terms of like yeah it's pretty delicious I mean it can get expensive in certain places, but that's where you know ball is nice because they give you a set price to get everything in there and there's all you can eat places to you know so yeah that's my pick for this week.



00:48:51.120 --> 00:48:58.020

Ellen O'Connor: Nice, I have to say I am so looking forward to as restaurants begin to open again, and you know get.



00:48:58.740 --> 00:49:14.700

Ellen O'Connor: able to get back out and experience some of the really just you know is you say just a lot of the delightful food that's out there, that is, you know things you wouldn't make it home I would you know you know I don't have those skills to be able to do that and, just to be able to enjoy.



00:49:16.500 --> 00:49:20.310

Ellen O'Connor: Just the creativity that people bring to two meals.



00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:29.460

Ellen O'Connor: and enter the experience of eating it's just it's wonderful and i'm looking forward to those opportunities again as things begin to open yep.



00:49:29.910 --> 00:49:35.040

Hong Lieu: Definitely, creativity and hospitality because that's the service when a service is really good.



00:49:35.250 --> 00:49:35.610

Ellen O'Connor: I guess.



00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:44.760

Hong Lieu: Excuse a mediocre meal I don't I don't I can't excuse a bad meal, but I mean that just gets the job done food wise go where the service is really good and you really feel feel taken care of like.



00:49:45.090 --> 00:49:47.850

Hong Lieu: that's still a good experience me, I mean it's why it's why I love you know, like.



00:49:48.270 --> 00:49:58.680

Hong Lieu: Like a lot of restaurants, where I always tell people I don't have any taste good I, like everything but no, I mean, I think, is bad, but I also know when they're trying really hard and you really put their all into it, like, I have to respect that, no matter what so yeah.



00:49:58.980 --> 00:49:59.160




00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:05.580

Ellen O'Connor: you'll get a kick out of this, especially because akil I know I know you're a Yankees fan.



00:50:07.410 --> 00:50:08.010

Akil Hill: through and through.



00:50:08.370 --> 00:50:20.790

Ellen O'Connor: During the through so I went to Yankee stadium, the new Yankee stadium few summers ago and so i'd never been, and I want to go check it out anyway, so one of my all time favorite things to do is.



00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:29.220

Ellen O'Connor: Go to a week day day game baseball That to me is like playing hooky right.



00:50:29.670 --> 00:50:40.800

Ellen O'Connor: So anyway, so there I am and i'm in Yankee stadium so get there early and, of course, have to get the hot dog and the and the beer so anyway, go to the concession stand and.



00:50:42.300 --> 00:50:51.300

Ellen O'Connor: This this woman who was a older woman who was serving this gets me my dog in the beer big smile on her face she just looks so happy.



00:50:51.960 --> 00:51:00.120

Ellen O'Connor: And I said, can I ask you a question I said you just seem so happy and she said, well, I am she said I love my Yankees.



00:51:00.450 --> 00:51:16.260

Ellen O'Connor: And I want to make sure that every person that comes to this stadium has the best time of their life watching my Yankees and I said that is such a great attitude I said how long have you been at this church, this is your number like 43 I was like good free I mean it was.



00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:17.520

Ellen O'Connor: Just delightful.



00:51:17.790 --> 00:51:19.350

Ellen O'Connor: Yes, dog and beer I that.



00:51:19.680 --> 00:51:20.640

Ellen O'Connor: notion about.



00:51:20.790 --> 00:51:24.030

Akil Hill: yeah absolutely it was and the Yankee do they do, they when.



00:51:25.050 --> 00:51:27.690

Ellen O'Connor: They played the oakland athletics, and yes, they did when I.



00:51:27.990 --> 00:51:28.470

Akil Hill: say what.



00:51:28.530 --> 00:51:30.120

Akil Hill: that's what we do that's what that dude.



00:51:30.390 --> 00:51:30.810




00:51:33.570 --> 00:51:36.090

Akil Hill: yeah that's funny because that kind of leads into.



00:51:36.660 --> 00:51:40.470

Akil Hill: My choice for food for good eats this weekend I.



00:51:41.550 --> 00:51:47.640

Akil Hill: My PIC is a spot that's located on figure rose street kind of right adjacent to.



00:51:49.470 --> 00:51:53.910

Akil Hill: The transfer Center or that parking lot right there but it's called norton's pastrami in Delhi.



00:51:55.080 --> 00:51:55.590

Akil Hill: and



00:51:56.730 --> 00:52:15.810

Akil Hill: I ate there actually a couple of days ago and I got one of my favorite things to get his mom's plt it's the pastrami sandwich just simple, but the pastrami is actually fried so it's a little bit crispy so you get the salty the crispy and then you get the you have to let us on the bread.



00:52:16.890 --> 00:52:24.930

Akil Hill: And man it's so good it's so good it's one of those spots where, if you blink your walk past it so.



00:52:25.710 --> 00:52:34.320

Akil Hill: it's right actually next is I think is right by his own a second but it's definitely the people are from New York their hours are like.



00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:40.290

Akil Hill: Really kind of they have a small window I think they're open from like 10 to four so.



00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:49.020

Akil Hill: You only have a small window to get it, but it's definitely you go in there and it feels like you're he's been transported to somewhere in New York.



00:52:49.500 --> 00:53:03.180

Akil Hill: Just small small like whole Nawaz space, but man those pastrami sandwiches are good, they have a whole slew of things, but that's what i'm sticking to this week the plt mom's plt.



00:53:04.560 --> 00:53:07.050

Akil Hill: I get extra me because you know you know how we work hard.



00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:08.910

Hong Lieu: We play.



00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:10.020

Akil Hill: We play to win the game.



00:53:11.130 --> 00:53:11.730

Hong Lieu: We don't play.



00:53:12.120 --> 00:53:13.140

Akil Hill: We don't play to lose it.



00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:14.010

Akil Hill: We play to win.



00:53:15.330 --> 00:53:25.440

Ellen O'Connor: Well, I was just gonna say I actually thought you were going to describe one of my favorite restaurants in Santa Barbara which is, if you are a fan of cornelius tacos.



00:53:26.640 --> 00:53:27.720

Ellen O'Connor: Llosa royals.



00:53:29.310 --> 00:53:30.930

Akil Hill: Which is right next door.



00:53:30.990 --> 00:53:36.060

Ellen O'Connor: It is right next to New Orleans and it's right next door, but the one that is downtown.



00:53:36.150 --> 00:53:49.320

Ellen O'Connor: You know that I, which I think is the original version of the cardenas it's a little crispy year than some of the other ones, and they are, they are so good, I don't even know what else is on the menu because that's all I ever.



00:53:51.030 --> 00:53:51.840

Ellen O'Connor: needed to talk to us.



00:53:52.290 --> 00:54:00.570

Hong Lieu: As some of the work downtown I use both both regularly and and most rose has taco Tuesday so on Tuesdays tacos are a little cheaper So if you want to try the.



00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:08.700

Hong Lieu: stock or any other type of illustrators today's a day to go, I like I like norms also and they had a little benches outside to wait so they're pretty coven respectful of the time.



00:54:09.450 --> 00:54:10.170

Hong Lieu: But I mean.



00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:23.070

Hong Lieu: If you're if astronomy purist you know that the pastrami on the flat top is controversial, but me I like I said I just care if it's good and therefore astronomy is really, really good and it actually is a twist because to me it makes it unique.



00:54:23.430 --> 00:54:25.170

Hong Lieu: like an astronomy periods you're like Oh, they don't.



00:54:25.350 --> 00:54:31.560

Hong Lieu: They don't just steam it it's pen right but it's like no they're the only ones that do on the flat top so you get those crispy edges.



00:54:31.650 --> 00:54:37.830

Hong Lieu: Yes, it is really and the Pickles Pickles on that little jar oh yeah.



00:54:38.550 --> 00:54:44.220

Akil Hill: I called my mom cuz you know we have a saying that we say you know slap your mama good.



00:54:44.670 --> 00:54:46.770

Akil Hill: So I will not after I finish.



00:54:47.250 --> 00:54:57.060

Akil Hill: What, after I finish even I said I call my mom she's like she's like she's like, why are you calling me in the middle of the day, because you know my mom and she's like always has fire right she's like.



00:54:57.900 --> 00:55:05.520

Akil Hill: She doesn't answer Hello she's like, why are you calling me mill today, so that I was like well you know you weren't here, so I couldn't slap you.



00:55:05.820 --> 00:55:15.780

Akil Hill: But I just take this this mama's plt and it was slap your mama good and she's like she's like you know that's when she hits me with like TAO please you know you know better than the slap your mama.



00:55:17.130 --> 00:55:26.130

Akil Hill: But it is really that good and and and so like how we talked about how things are opening up and things are you know we're kind of trending in the right direction.



00:55:26.910 --> 00:55:36.120

Akil Hill: would definitely urge people that are in the Santa Barbara area, I know, sometimes my PICs usually are in the ochsner area because I want about the the taco trucks, but.



00:55:37.230 --> 00:55:44.040

Akil Hill: This spot is definitely want to kind of you know, support local business I think they opened up and then I remember when they opened up, it was like.



00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:57.990

Akil Hill: Thinking like early late 90s, they opened up so they've been on the block for a minute so it's worth checking out the Pickles are good and i'm going to actually have two full disclosure I did order the chili cheese pastrami Fries as well.



00:55:57.990 --> 00:55:58.500




00:56:00.510 --> 00:56:00.930

Akil Hill: So.



00:56:01.260 --> 00:56:03.240

Hong Lieu: handle both you had a both in one sitting you.



00:56:05.940 --> 00:56:06.630

Akil Hill: know we put.



00:56:07.170 --> 00:56:08.460

Akil Hill: We put my business out there i'll just.



00:56:08.460 --> 00:56:09.390

Hong Lieu: Say like that.



00:56:09.750 --> 00:56:20.010

Akil Hill: But yes, I did I so that's that's one thing that you will see on the menu that we probably won't find in other places pastrami chili cheese Fries and there yeah it's good.



00:56:20.610 --> 00:56:35.070

Ellen O'Connor: One thing I haven't discovered here in Santa Barbara that I used to have when I was a Grad student so up at uc Davis, they have a restaurant up there called symposium, which is a Greek restaurant and they do pizza, but they do it out of filardo.



00:56:36.750 --> 00:56:37.320

Ellen O'Connor: So.



00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:37.950

Ellen O'Connor: Good.



00:56:38.130 --> 00:56:38.910

Ellen O'Connor: I can imagine.



00:56:39.120 --> 00:56:50.790

Ellen O'Connor: yeah is really, really good, so I come to Santa Barbara I find a Greek restaurant, I went in I said, you know i'm I don't see pizza on your menu, and they looked at me like.



00:56:52.500 --> 00:56:53.940

Ellen O'Connor: it's a Greek restaurant we don't do.



00:56:54.510 --> 00:56:55.170

Akil Hill: Wrong country.



00:56:56.520 --> 00:57:01.020

Ellen O'Connor: I said really but but there's this restaurant at Davis that doesn't it will then go two days.



00:57:03.720 --> 00:57:10.590

Hong Lieu: I know of a couple Mediterranean places in San Luis obispo one place that does pizza with Mediterranean like you know shawarma your own.



00:57:10.590 --> 00:57:10.860

Ellen O'Connor: stuff.



00:57:11.160 --> 00:57:14.400

Hong Lieu: But I don't know if they do a philo pizza because that sounds incredible.



00:57:14.430 --> 00:57:15.810

Ellen O'Connor: Oh it's good.



00:57:17.610 --> 00:57:21.750

Ellen O'Connor: I had a student, the other day she said she was transferred to uc Davis, I said that's great cheers where you need to.



00:57:24.300 --> 00:57:25.800

Hong Lieu: drop a true knowledge drop.



00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:26.220

Ellen O'Connor: that's right.



00:57:27.870 --> 00:57:28.380

Akil Hill: yeah.



00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:36.330

Hong Lieu: Oh yeah i'm gonna look it up now afterwards i'm gonna i'll put that in the show notes, because I will take the time to look it up myself first yeah phyllo dough pizza Davis.



00:57:38.010 --> 00:57:38.160

Ellen O'Connor: yeah.



00:57:39.720 --> 00:57:40.080

Ellen O'Connor: yeah.



00:57:40.470 --> 00:57:52.920

Hong Lieu: So, moving on to our higher learning section, where we if there's any a book music movies TV video game anything that has given you life piece of culture, I know you you drop the the the atomic habits book on this earlier.



00:57:53.970 --> 00:57:58.080

Hong Lieu: So you can expand on that if you want, if you have something else you want to suggest you go.



00:57:58.200 --> 00:58:00.060

Ellen O'Connor: You know I it's um.



00:58:01.620 --> 00:58:11.520

Ellen O'Connor: I read a lot of things I like to read leadership and I enjoy oftentimes reading, you know I I read different coaching books and that sort of thing, particularly from the standpoint of.



00:58:12.660 --> 00:58:26.190

Ellen O'Connor: Like how do organizations perform well, so I i'm kind of a fan of Jim Collins in the good degree, you know and built last textbook so I I ended up reading recently his.



00:58:28.290 --> 00:58:32.640

Ellen O'Connor: How the mighty fall and you know, of course, this is sort of looking at.



00:58:33.450 --> 00:58:42.330

Ellen O'Connor: It you know his original work was around built to last, which was you know, looking at these iconic companies, and you know what makes them so iconic you know sony's and.



00:58:43.140 --> 00:58:48.750

Ellen O'Connor: Hewlett Packard and you know all these other different months and then, of course, you know, one of his colleagues as well you know those.



00:58:49.050 --> 00:58:55.080

Ellen O'Connor: that's great, but you know how how did they get there, so, then he writes good to great, and you know the comparison of different companies in terms of.



00:58:55.500 --> 00:59:02.340

Ellen O'Connor: How they went from being you know pretty good companies to really just iconic and then of course the next part of that is.



00:59:02.730 --> 00:59:14.190

Ellen O'Connor: What happens when these iconic companies fails, what are some of the hallmarks of the decline, and so I was reading that recently it was was sort of an interesting kind of thing just you know.



00:59:15.180 --> 00:59:21.300

Ellen O'Connor: As as the world changes and, as you know, life around us changes what you know what are some of the telltale signs so.



00:59:22.380 --> 00:59:32.220

Ellen O'Connor: it's a good book I you know I recommend that, in terms of you know if you're like I said I like looking at organizations and sort of what makes them really good what makes them.



00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:40.650

Ellen O'Connor: You know what did they do in times of trouble, and this one was kind of an enlightening textbook on they're actually not so much a textbook, even though he is.



00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:43.590

Ellen O'Connor: You know his research is all or his.



00:59:44.670 --> 00:59:53.250

Ellen O'Connor: His writing is all based on the research that he does in the in the business world, but yeah it was interesting five stages of decline and the first one being sort of.



00:59:54.810 --> 01:00:00.990

Ellen O'Connor: You know kind of resting on your laurels and sort of thinking about you know, not so much what God has to be great but.



01:00:01.650 --> 01:00:18.780

Ellen O'Connor: We just are and so that's just just how we do it because you know we just are great and so that sort of that shift from how do we get there, too, and kind of a lack of analysis sort of an arrogance about you know what makes you great and sort of the.



01:00:19.950 --> 01:00:28.200

Ellen O'Connor: that's kind of a hallmark of of beginning the beginnings of decline and then getting away from what it is that really makes you great and then looking at decisions that.



01:00:28.980 --> 01:00:35.310

Ellen O'Connor: You know you start grasping for straws when you realize you're on the way down and you start to like Okay, you get away from really that.



01:00:35.910 --> 01:00:45.150

Ellen O'Connor: What really got you there in the first place, what are your real core principles and so it's it's a good one, I recommend it if somebody was a good to great fan.



01:00:46.170 --> 01:00:48.180

Ellen O'Connor: The follow up is is interesting.



01:00:49.860 --> 01:00:56.220

Hong Lieu: yeah it's good it's good concept it's it's different because you know after the fact it's easy to evaluate these kinds of things.



01:00:56.520 --> 01:01:03.930

Hong Lieu: But in the moment it's very tough to to notice these imperceptible changes that are happening around you like, when you when you, you know when you get to that level of greatness.



01:01:04.260 --> 01:01:12.930

Hong Lieu: Maintaining that level of greatness is is difficult, very difficult, as well as the talking about boxing all the time it's not about winning the belt it's about getting the belt losing it and getting it back again.



01:01:13.170 --> 01:01:14.670

Hong Lieu: that's a sign of a true champion you.



01:01:14.670 --> 01:01:22.020

Hong Lieu: know so so when you're at that top level for so long, I mean there's a lot of times you don't even notice that you've done anything differently, you think you're still doing the same.



01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:25.830

Hong Lieu: But you have to in order to maintain that level it's not doing it the same it's it's.



01:01:26.490 --> 01:01:36.270

Hong Lieu: Going even farther when you think you've already pushed yourself to the limit so it's the I mean it's it's it's one of those tough nut to crack and I worked at a video game company before I came NSPCC.



01:01:36.810 --> 01:01:40.830

Hong Lieu: And the first it was the I worked there during the first year they broke a billion in total revenue.



01:01:41.220 --> 01:01:48.150

Hong Lieu: And in terms of if you had to tell me what the process was and how we did it, but nobody could tell you, we just ground, you know nose to the grindstone.



01:01:48.390 --> 01:01:57.420

Hong Lieu: Just power through it and then you look on their side like I can't believe we made it through there you know so it's one of things we're in the moment you can't you can't evaluate it it's only you know the power of hindsight and.



01:01:57.960 --> 01:02:04.320

Hong Lieu: Time to detach yourself in the situation that you can even begin to kind of form, coherent points around what happened because it was all craziness of the time.



01:02:04.890 --> 01:02:11.160

Hong Lieu: We never done it before we were just doing what we were doing but ramped up and hoping that was enough, and sometimes it is, and sometimes.



01:02:11.490 --> 01:02:17.970

Hong Lieu: I feel like on both sides, the Center greatness, and the descent from greatness, I mean in the moment you're just living it you don't know you know it's hard to.



01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:21.810

Hong Lieu: to really be mindful of that, but then, when you take a step back and look at your like okay.



01:02:22.050 --> 01:02:28.170

Hong Lieu: So it's good to have these books that have those concepts kind of distilled for you it's like a shortcut you've you like 1015 years of working experience.



01:02:28.380 --> 01:02:36.600

Hong Lieu: distilled into a chapter that's like oh yeah you know I didn't make so much sense, but you just have to remember when you're actually applying this stuff that in the moment it's just craziness, no matter what it's going to be crazy.



01:02:36.750 --> 01:02:37.350

Hong Lieu: So you have to like.



01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:41.130

Hong Lieu: You have that in the back your head, but allow the crazy to take over as well, so yeah.



01:02:41.460 --> 01:02:48.030

Ellen O'Connor: Well that's why I really like Jim Collins his work, because he you know he does take a lot of that sort of what does he call it from chaos to concept.



01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:56.970

Ellen O'Connor: of taking you know what what seems to be these kind of disparate pieces of information and yet, if you look at them in a certain light, you can see how they really do connect and and.



01:02:57.090 --> 01:03:06.330

Ellen O'Connor: Having those dots be connected is like oh kind of illuminating like yeah okay now I really understand it now his third point is is always looking at sort of the denial of data that.



01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:17.010

Ellen O'Connor: You know, we got there and then well, maybe there are some things that are slipping but you know that's just you know but that's because of you know, a pandemic, or you know something where you know we don't really.



01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:24.450

Ellen O'Connor: get to the essence of what it is and sort of denying what some of that is I think can be a real you know.



01:03:27.060 --> 01:03:36.510

Ellen O'Connor: opportunity, you know we have opportunities for growth oftentimes we are thinking about things, new I mean, I think, in many ways that's where the pandemic has been in some ways.



01:03:37.380 --> 01:03:43.230

Ellen O'Connor: It has given us a different lens to really look at some things that will probably change how we do.



01:03:44.220 --> 01:03:46.560

Ellen O'Connor: Business and how we teach and things in the future.



01:03:46.950 --> 01:03:57.660

Ellen O'Connor: And, not all of that being bad I think many of us who were giving us some insight that probably we thought about before but really didn't take the opportunity to explore so at least I know from my perspective.



01:03:58.170 --> 01:04:09.840

Ellen O'Connor: You know, thinking about teaching online and then okay now you have to teach online like okay yeah so yeah having a chance to be reflective I think is is time well spent.



01:04:12.120 --> 01:04:19.260

Hong Lieu: And how and how easily all these conversations go from great companies to sports teams, you know athletics as well, I mean there's all these conversations about.



01:04:19.560 --> 01:04:27.840

Hong Lieu: Be at the Center greatness maintaining greatness, you know how to mitigate descent and it's all plays out license as well all the great dynasties you thought they'd win championships forever.



01:04:28.080 --> 01:04:37.920

Hong Lieu: And it's just a little psychological change or maybe slight physical decline and then and then your whole methodology has to adapt or else you starts to taper down a little bit or taper up so yeah.



01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:46.800

Ellen O'Connor: If you ever get a chance, the New York Times i've forgotten who the author was ran a really excellent piece on the warriors golden state warriors.



01:04:47.490 --> 01:05:02.790

Ellen O'Connor: And sort of looking at how they approached you know because their you know their ownership and a lot of the the Google folks, and so they you know they they applied the same principles in terms of how they would acquire a you know, a.



01:05:04.080 --> 01:05:13.230

Ellen O'Connor: startup company or some sort of you know you know something that was in the tech world and so applied some of those same lessons to the warriors it's really fascinating so.



01:05:13.710 --> 01:05:21.870

Ellen O'Connor: I don't know if you kill, you probably know, and you probably do too that you know they were they had been a playoff team and they had my mark Jackson is the coach.



01:05:22.380 --> 01:05:29.580

Ellen O'Connor: And, but didn't feel that he could take them to the championship level, and while he was an excellent coach they just didn't think that he had what it took.



01:05:29.910 --> 01:05:34.710

Ellen O'Connor: And so they were looking for somebody with a little bit more flexibility and so anyway.



01:05:35.670 --> 01:05:42.960

Ellen O'Connor: And then, of course, you know who's the PhD in basketball right, you know that that's the person we really need to have guide us, and so they brought Jerry weston and.



01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:52.230

Ellen O'Connor: Anyway, it was just fascinating how they applied those principles to the building of this what has become a dynasty basketball team.



01:05:53.160 --> 01:05:53.610




01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:58.320

Akil Hill: I remember mark Jackson to I remember, I was like what they got rid of March.



01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:01.530

Hong Lieu: yeah because that's the thing they went to the playoffs and they weren't that they were not good.



01:06:01.530 --> 01:06:14.400

Hong Lieu: Before that you know they were they were bad they made the playoffs a couple years in March, so they were they were better, but to have that recognition in the moment like we want to be even better than this when this was a high water mark for them in the past, you know 510 15 years.



01:06:14.730 --> 01:06:23.340

Hong Lieu: I mean that's that's that's a lot of guts and it's a move, where if it backfires it's costing people their jobs, but they still took that chance and then the thought through and look what happened, you know and then.



01:06:23.400 --> 01:06:25.230

Akil Hill: yeah and yeah so that's that's.



01:06:25.260 --> 01:06:26.520

Hong Lieu: that's a good lesson to learn for sure.



01:06:26.820 --> 01:06:27.600

Akil Hill: yeah they different.



01:06:28.140 --> 01:06:39.150

Ellen O'Connor: going well, I was just to say they had certain principles that they wanted in a in a leader and one of them was flexibility and the ability to to sort of take input from a variety of sources and.



01:06:40.140 --> 01:06:46.800

Ellen O'Connor: and give it its due wait and it apparently one of the big things was in one of their first series I think championship series.



01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:49.650

Ellen O'Connor: gosh I forgot who it was against but.



01:06:50.700 --> 01:07:00.720

Ellen O'Connor: The guy That was the film editor you know and in the that hierarchy type thing you know that's your the film editor you're you're you know you're not on the coaching staff, whatever, but one of the film editor said.



01:07:01.080 --> 01:07:07.920

Ellen O'Connor: You know so and so it's just torturing us, and if we put Andre iguodala on you have that that's that's how we're going to win this championship.



01:07:08.550 --> 01:07:17.910

Ellen O'Connor: And I guess Kurt was like yeah you're right, and so you know so that idea filter from um you know, a person that had been watching all kinds of film.



01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:23.910

Ellen O'Connor: You know, God is recognition and said yeah let's do it and, apparently, that was the That was the key to victory.



01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:30.360

Akil Hill: Should i'm going to try, that when we come back to sports i'm gonna get a properly so i'm like man you just need to do this.



01:07:34.110 --> 01:07:36.330

Akil Hill: You probably probably won't go over that as smoothly as that.



01:07:37.560 --> 01:07:39.930

Ellen O'Connor: I always think a few be brown I don't know if you remember yeah.



01:07:39.930 --> 01:07:40.500

Hong Lieu: Oh yeah.



01:07:40.530 --> 01:07:41.280

Akil Hill: yeah yeah.



01:07:41.490 --> 01:07:42.000

Hong Lieu: We love you.



01:07:42.420 --> 01:07:44.370

Ellen O'Connor: I could listen to be brown all day long.



01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:48.570

Ellen O'Connor: So he's on there he's talking, I was at a seminar and he's talking and he says.



01:07:50.160 --> 01:07:54.870

Ellen O'Connor: He says, you know, one of the one of the key things about being a great coach he said never underestimate where your next.



01:07:55.590 --> 01:08:00.390

Ellen O'Connor: Great player is going to come from, so he tells story he's coaching the next their in game seven of the nba championship.



01:08:00.810 --> 01:08:12.660

Ellen O'Connor: And earlier in the day he goes to his daughter's eighth grade see ya know basketball game, and so the coach runs and out of bounds play that as as she is watching it, it has all the elements of play that he likes, so it has.



01:08:12.930 --> 01:08:24.300

Ellen O'Connor: You know misdirection it has you know multiple passes it has several options it's got this new thing, so he steals it he puts it in into the into the knicks playbook for that night.



01:08:24.660 --> 01:08:33.060

Ellen O'Connor: And they run it and they score and when and so he said see why you know eighth grade girls basketball see ya want us an nba championship.



01:08:33.330 --> 01:08:34.260

yeah for now.



01:08:35.820 --> 01:08:46.170

Hong Lieu: I mean, because when you break down the the nitty gritty of it it's it's a game, you know so so you just got you just try some stuff and seo and have fun with it and you'll you'll see success, more often than not.



01:08:46.470 --> 01:08:46.830

Ellen O'Connor: mm hmm.



01:08:47.160 --> 01:08:48.510

Hong Lieu: You stated the fundamentals.



01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:50.070

Ellen O'Connor: choo choo yeah.



01:08:52.020 --> 01:09:01.320

Hong Lieu: All right, i'll go next my PIC is kind of kind of aligned with that, but I did want to highlight because because I want to hear you know I want to talk about.



01:09:01.890 --> 01:09:08.640

Hong Lieu: women's athletics, a little bit my my pick, for this is episode is the HBO documentary on the usc women's basketball team called women of Troy.



01:09:09.240 --> 01:09:12.630

Hong Lieu: So it was it was a mostly about cheryl Miller and a lot of folks.



01:09:13.020 --> 01:09:19.110

Hong Lieu: You know a lot of folks and i'll share a Miller, just like just like I know he'd be brown as as a broadcaster, a lot of folks know Sean Miller, as a broadcaster.



01:09:19.470 --> 01:09:28.590

Hong Lieu: But you know she was for a time, the best possibly best basketball player period on the planet, let alone best women's basketball player.



01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:29.100

Ellen O'Connor: yeah.



01:09:29.700 --> 01:09:34.170

Hong Lieu: You know her career was was was cut short by a torn acl after she graduated from college, but.



01:09:34.470 --> 01:09:43.890

Hong Lieu: I mean, she would she would have moved on professional status in this net, but just just watching those old clips and the documentary I forgot how stack that usc team was because they had the monkey twins it's.



01:09:44.700 --> 01:09:45.270

Akil Hill: The element yeah.



01:09:45.960 --> 01:09:51.000

Hong Lieu: yeah and and and the style of basketball they played was so progressive you know, in terms of they I mean they.



01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:53.460

Hong Lieu: were just really pushing the pace, I mean.



01:09:54.210 --> 01:10:01.380

Hong Lieu: I I always think of women's basketball in general is more fundamentally sound because I like I said I love to play basketball but i'm not not very tall i'm not very good.



01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:11.640

Hong Lieu: But I focus on the fundamentals like I play great Defense I know I know how to box out and play in the post, so I actually enjoy watching movies basketball, a lot of times more because, in terms of how I need to get better.



01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:16.320

Hong Lieu: I get more out of watching women's basketball the men's basketball because I can't do any of the things that the men do.



01:10:17.130 --> 01:10:21.690

Hong Lieu: Even even the dribbling even the handles I don't have handled like that so we're watching women's basketball there.



01:10:22.080 --> 01:10:28.980

Hong Lieu: is always so on point in terms of the motion, the sets they run are always super clean you're always getting you're always getting open looks when the player runs right.



01:10:29.250 --> 01:10:35.550

Hong Lieu: But watching that the usc the cheryl Miller run usc teams was that sort of fundamental like precision.



01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:45.870

Hong Lieu: But with that that free get lettuce ISM that was it was unbelievable I mean watching her move around the Court she could hit a mid range jumper she could play into your Defense he would she can move outside with folks that wrote the outside.



01:10:46.080 --> 01:10:54.000

Hong Lieu: And she really I mean was a pioneer in that point forward position where she would run the offense with run primarily through her so so people talk about point forward in the nba.



01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:59.910

Hong Lieu: A lot of folks bring up you know Gary Johnson akon mason they were point four is by necessity, because they were undersized.



01:11:00.150 --> 01:11:05.520

Hong Lieu: So they couldn't bang inside a lot, they were a player point ford's because that was the best thing to do, because they.



01:11:05.520 --> 01:11:05.820

Akil Hill: yeah.



01:11:06.180 --> 01:11:11.340

Hong Lieu: from outside and lead in sure I mean there was a point for not a necessity, because she was the best player on the Court she was he was.



01:11:11.580 --> 01:11:17.280

Hong Lieu: One of the tallest player on the Court you could bang you inside she wanted to she could hit a little a little mid range, I mean her game was almost perfect.



01:11:17.310 --> 01:11:23.760

Hong Lieu: You know, like yeah and and and then the scenes stories about how she beat reggie all the time and really in one on one maybe also think about reaching those career.



01:11:23.940 --> 01:11:28.800

Hong Lieu: Where he's primary outside shooter because he's playing into sister all the time and she's way taller than him and he's not drawing he got.



01:11:29.010 --> 01:11:30.270

Hong Lieu: Laying up i'm Carol Miller.



01:11:30.540 --> 01:11:38.280

Hong Lieu: Who he had to shoot threes all the time, so just like her, her impact on and off the Court and just for the game of basketball and basketball culture as a whole, I mean.



01:11:38.850 --> 01:11:45.990

Hong Lieu: Just a true icon you know and and it's and it's one of the things we're even seeing how Cynthia cooper's career blossom after after usc and she.



01:11:46.230 --> 01:11:51.630

Hong Lieu: She went to play overseas and then came back and won Championships in the web and really got that lead off the ground.



01:11:51.960 --> 01:12:00.510

Hong Lieu: Like the impact of that usc team period, you know the mcgee twins were great players and they and then i'm having a one of the twins ended up going, you know professionally overseas as well.



01:12:00.900 --> 01:12:05.580

Hong Lieu: I mean that that whole kind of dynamic, it was it was a good documentary, but it was just great to see.



01:12:05.910 --> 01:12:15.030

Hong Lieu: Those clips again and how great that team was and how fluid that basketball was because I mean like I said I love the game so just like if you love the game of basketball or just love.



01:12:15.510 --> 01:12:22.170

Hong Lieu: kind of, and it does go to Title nine as well, so it's a good primer on title nine and women's athletics, but just great basketball like she.



01:12:22.890 --> 01:12:33.930

Hong Lieu: was so amazing and forget about that because he's such a good broadcast or two, and now I think she's a coach at a CAFE la for their basketball team, but um yeah really, really grateful it's really incredible.



01:12:34.890 --> 01:12:36.150

Ellen O'Connor: I didn't realize she was coaching.



01:12:36.660 --> 01:12:42.300

Hong Lieu: I think, at the end of the end of the document the shoulder on the cross the Atlantic she's the women's basketball coach.



01:12:42.690 --> 01:12:45.300

Ellen O'Connor: She she coached for a minute at usc.



01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:48.900

Hong Lieu: yeah and she coached in the web, I think, for the phoenix mercury, or when they.



01:12:48.900 --> 01:12:50.370

Ellen O'Connor: First, oh yeah yeah yeah.



01:12:50.970 --> 01:12:51.150




01:12:52.290 --> 01:12:57.750

Ellen O'Connor: Well that's a good one she's you know it's Those are some good hooping years I tell you they that.



01:12:59.400 --> 01:13:07.470

Ellen O'Connor: That was those were fun teams to watch and then you know develop mcgee is, I think I think these pan mcgee's.



01:13:07.680 --> 01:13:09.390

Hong Lieu: Oh here, he is.



01:13:10.440 --> 01:13:11.790

Hong Lieu: out about that.



01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:14.160

Akil Hill: yeah that's his mom.



01:13:14.940 --> 01:13:20.460

Hong Lieu: that's awesome because I love travail mcgee to people give a lot of you know they get all over them because of shakin a fool and all.



01:13:20.460 --> 01:13:20.670




01:13:21.780 --> 01:13:32.280

Hong Lieu: But he is good, you know he he is I mean yeah he's he's got game, and he and he plays well he's he's not some loose cannon out there, you know he isn't he isn't but you know yeah I love to be able to get it.



01:13:32.490 --> 01:13:45.660

Akil Hill: yeah Lisa Leslie and I remember sure Lisa I met Sean Miller and Lisa Leslie was another one of my favorites to like she just had such an all around game.



01:13:47.400 --> 01:13:47.880

Akil Hill: man.



01:13:48.510 --> 01:13:53.190

Hong Lieu: Another player that I that whose careers cut short by injury and who makes an appearance, the document Rebecca Lobo.



01:13:53.580 --> 01:13:58.470

Hong Lieu: Rebecca Lobo was an amazing college player and I saw when she went to who drafted by the New York liberty, I think.



01:13:58.860 --> 01:14:03.810

Hong Lieu: It was like oh man it's a wrap she's she's gonna dominate and she taught, you know and it's just one of those things where.



01:14:04.140 --> 01:14:08.940

Hong Lieu: You know, medical technology being what it is now, I mean it's better now but it just is amazing because.



01:14:09.540 --> 01:14:14.460

Hong Lieu: Sean Miller and Rebecca Lobo those racy else you know we're not assigned to kill each other, you know it's an it's an injury that.



01:14:14.790 --> 01:14:22.050

Hong Lieu: is definitely rehab bubble now but, at the time, I mean yeah just just the medical proof progress that we've made over the years is kind of a lot of that too.



01:14:22.530 --> 01:14:29.370

Ellen O'Connor: here's some SPC history for you on on that front so gosh i'm not gonna remember the year but.



01:14:30.900 --> 01:14:35.460

Ellen O'Connor: So Santa Barbara high school has run for many years, the tournament of champions.



01:14:36.210 --> 01:14:44.760

Ellen O'Connor: And women's basketball league girls basketball, and so there was a period of time where that that was a that was one of the premier national tournaments.



01:14:45.240 --> 01:14:50.310

Ellen O'Connor: You know, in the country, and so there was a you know they would play games all throughout Santa Barbara.



01:14:50.790 --> 01:14:58.410

Ellen O'Connor: And so you had teams, you know these are the top, you know 20 teams from all over the United States that were coming that you know would include you know the least leslie's in the.



01:14:58.710 --> 01:15:06.210

Ellen O'Connor: ham, gays and you know all that sort of thing anyway, so one year we at Santa Barbara city college we hosted the.



01:15:07.500 --> 01:15:10.110

Ellen O'Connor: I think the championship game, and I think a couple of other games.



01:15:11.160 --> 01:15:18.990

Ellen O'Connor: And Christ, the King was the the number one team in the country at that time and Sue bird was the point guard for.



01:15:19.050 --> 01:15:27.450

Ellen O'Connor: Oh, and so I saw a play as a high schooler as a I think at that time, which you might have been a junior in high school, maybe a senior, but it was like wow.



01:15:27.930 --> 01:15:28.470

yeah okay.



01:15:29.670 --> 01:15:30.060

Akil Hill: yeah.



01:15:30.330 --> 01:15:37.770

Ellen O'Connor: yeah it's good to play it was really I mean it was great high school girls basketball really top notch.



01:15:38.550 --> 01:15:43.530

Akil Hill: It was I wish our high school, so I remember the 90s man, we would.



01:15:44.820 --> 01:15:46.770

Akil Hill: All of us, like all the ball players.



01:15:47.820 --> 01:15:53.670

Akil Hill: hooper's we would ditch class and go check out the tournament champions, because it was going all day in the gym.



01:15:54.120 --> 01:15:59.970

Akil Hill: yeah so sometimes we would like to just ditch class and then just go post up and watch the girls play that was.



01:16:01.410 --> 01:16:03.510

Akil Hill: The first time I saw Marion Jones she was playing.



01:16:03.510 --> 01:16:04.320

Ellen O'Connor: For oh yes.



01:16:04.590 --> 01:16:14.670

Akil Hill: She was playing for thousand oaks high school at the time she started out real Mesa this you went to thousand nodes and I kid you not in warm ups, she was like above the room finger.



01:16:14.670 --> 01:16:15.060




01:16:16.380 --> 01:16:25.710

Akil Hill: I was like what if I witnessed right now my life, and then I saw her right up at the easterlies up as Santa Barbara city college and.



01:16:26.850 --> 01:16:37.440

Akil Hill: I couldn't even believe it I couldn't even believe someone was literally that fast it's literally like the first time I ever seen someone with like world class be like she was done with the race and the girls were still running the been.



01:16:37.770 --> 01:16:38.550

Akil Hill: Like she was done.



01:16:38.970 --> 01:16:39.720

Ellen O'Connor: yeah yeah.



01:16:40.020 --> 01:16:48.450

Akil Hill: So yeah I met that's there's a lot of history about about you know athletics and women's sports in Santa Barbara no we don't.



01:16:49.200 --> 01:16:59.040

Akil Hill: necessarily you know give it is just too, but there's man i've seen like I just couldn't believe it I couldn't believe watching someone like that caliber athlete I was shocked.



01:17:00.270 --> 01:17:05.640

Ellen O'Connor: yeah I can remember, is washing her as a high schooler like basketball at a couple of summer camps and.



01:17:06.210 --> 01:17:12.510

Ellen O'Connor: I just remember when she she stole the ball and by the time the team even realize that the ball had been stolen.



01:17:13.440 --> 01:17:15.210

Ellen O'Connor: She was she was laying it up at the other end.



01:17:15.810 --> 01:17:25.260

Ellen O'Connor: And so what one coach you know she's some division one coach she's happenstance and your friend says what just happened, she said you'll see it on highlights the sports Center highlights tonight.



01:17:27.780 --> 01:17:29.340

Ellen O'Connor: yeah she she was quite an athlete.



01:17:30.930 --> 01:17:38.070

Akil Hill: That actually kind of leads to my pick for this week i'm gonna go with last chance you the new seasons out.



01:17:39.150 --> 01:17:49.260

Akil Hill: For basketball and it's they filmed it at East Los Angeles Community college.



01:17:50.880 --> 01:18:05.250

Akil Hill: And with their coach name I think his name was john Mosley and it's basically we it's the same kind of the premise as as the football shows where they're just looking at you know these you know athletes and what they're facing with.



01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:20.010

Akil Hill: talks about a few guys that were rising stars top national recruits come out of high school that just didn't that bounce back just didn't make good decisions just a really good story i'm hoping that they'll do something.



01:18:21.960 --> 01:18:29.550

Akil Hill: An episode or a series with with women's sports because that needs to be centered and so, but it just this the normal stuff gets.



01:18:30.240 --> 01:18:44.940

Akil Hill: stories about redemption and and facing adversity and all the universal things that we know that our student athletes are faced with you know, like you see them show like like the food insecurity and what they're eating and like it's just.



01:18:46.500 --> 01:18:50.910

Akil Hill: It felt like yeah, this is what our our students are probably faced with to as well.



01:18:51.990 --> 01:18:59.580

Akil Hill: And then, it was actually cool because they're in the the triple C double lake Conference, and so it follows them all the way up into.



01:19:00.480 --> 01:19:04.860

Akil Hill: Their state championship, and then they actually play Allen hancock in the.



01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:16.770

Akil Hill: semis or, I think, towards the end of the season and and that was a back and forth game they end up winning but then that was the last game they played because it stopped due to Kobe so I just gave away the show but.



01:19:18.360 --> 01:19:19.050

Akil Hill: But anyways.



01:19:19.470 --> 01:19:31.440

Akil Hill: The morals in the lessons are still there and it's definitely worth worth watching and I hope last hands you sinners women sports because I need that that needs to be done.



01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:39.000

Hong Lieu: And it's an interesting show because it's folks that like we're division one players and close it could ball and like.



01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:45.990

Hong Lieu: pretty good basketball careers, but for some reason or another, just didn't end up getting that break and getting on next.



01:19:46.290 --> 01:19:52.650

Hong Lieu: is like a second chance you know that's why you know the last chance you so some of these folks I mean you could tell they could play you could tell but just.



01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:59.640

Hong Lieu: Life circumstances things around the game and that and that aspect of it, where you're taking these folks in and yeah they.



01:20:00.060 --> 01:20:06.000

Hong Lieu: On the Court it's a cohesive team, but off the Court there's so many things going on and all sorts of things we went on that.



01:20:06.390 --> 01:20:13.440

Hong Lieu: In terms of mitigating those circumstances and a lot of times it's too much to overcome for some folks you know so it's like to think about Cynthia Cooper and the women are Troy documentary.



01:20:13.740 --> 01:20:18.300

Hong Lieu: share for her brother passed away, you know when she was school and she quit school for a while and someone had to bring her back like.



01:20:18.630 --> 01:20:22.500

Hong Lieu: All these circumstances and not like, he was talking about food insecurity and things of that sort.



01:20:22.980 --> 01:20:33.150

Hong Lieu: I mean it's it's it's a lot of work to get on the Court it's a lot of work to go to practice a lot of work to be an athlete and just I just seen these folks who's who still have that hunger, so that passionate, it is a great show.



01:20:35.130 --> 01:20:43.350

Ellen O'Connor: yeah it's a you know it's funny I haven't seen that I hear quite a bit about it and it's I think those stories are always just you know.



01:20:44.340 --> 01:20:51.870

Ellen O'Connor: You know, we need to hear them, we need to hear the kinds of struggles, you know you just never know what someone's dealing with, and you know.



01:20:52.350 --> 01:21:00.060

Ellen O'Connor: Having to sort of navigate so many of those things I think it's just you know just really a testimony to you know the the human spirit and.



01:21:00.900 --> 01:21:09.570

Ellen O'Connor: yeah I mean i've been you know this, the pandemic it's just you know i'm trying to think of what i've watched on netflix and then I think Okay, what happened, I watched on netflix and minutes you know.



01:21:09.960 --> 01:21:15.570

Ellen O'Connor: You all kinds of stuff and so it's been really sort of enlightening to see you know from different historical periods and.



01:21:16.620 --> 01:21:25.650

Ellen O'Connor: there's some common themes and some of it, which is you know just sometimes humans are not very good to other humans, you know we see so much of that.



01:21:26.670 --> 01:21:35.250

Ellen O'Connor: You know throughout I don't know you know, for whatever reason you're saying that kill it remind me I just you know how banks.



01:21:35.430 --> 01:21:37.440

Akil Hill: yeah she's a legend SP legend.



01:21:37.770 --> 01:21:47.040

Ellen O'Connor: yeah well I just got a text from her today and we were, you know as we were texting back and forth, we were lamenting about the the you know division one women's basketball weight room, you know and that.



01:21:47.100 --> 01:21:47.940

Ellen O'Connor: That controversy.



01:21:48.810 --> 01:21:55.800

Ellen O'Connor: And it's you know I just you know I said at the same time i'm i'm i'm infuriated and i'm not shocked.



01:21:56.310 --> 01:22:03.150

Ellen O'Connor: yeah, which is a is a weird feeling in and of itself, you know, like again.



01:22:03.540 --> 01:22:04.260

You know yeah.



01:22:05.730 --> 01:22:08.010

Akil Hill: My whole thing with that too is like.



01:22:08.850 --> 01:22:23.250

Akil Hill: I I just get it triggers have so much in me, but my whole thing is like their response to it's like people need to start losing jobs and and i'm not an advocate for telling people that are firing people that's just not how I roll but.



01:22:23.760 --> 01:22:27.360

Akil Hill: But the reality is if you're supposed to be leading this charge.



01:22:28.410 --> 01:22:42.810

Akil Hill: Your apology doesn't mean anything now I because we see your actions and and and until people start really facing true repercussions for actions it's like you know I it's just frustrating, but a shout out to.



01:22:44.130 --> 01:22:45.570

Akil Hill: So don't a Prince because.



01:22:45.870 --> 01:22:46.560

Ellen O'Connor: Oh yeah.



01:22:46.740 --> 01:22:55.050

Akil Hill: I think she's great man I love her personality, I think she's great for women athletes and she's great for this athletics period it doesn't matter.



01:22:56.190 --> 01:23:06.690

Akil Hill: That she's a woman, but she's just like I follow her, and so I I just got to say shout out for her calling out the nc a on their mess and.



01:23:07.980 --> 01:23:10.800

Akil Hill: people's got to start getting fired man I just I really believe that.



01:23:10.980 --> 01:23:19.560

Hong Lieu: yeah if there if there wasn't room that's one thing and then she pan over it's like this whole empty thing like what is going on here there's literally no reason for that except you're trying to.



01:23:20.280 --> 01:23:26.730

Hong Lieu: Put a dot and I are some kind of exclamation point and something I mean at that point you think it's like it's trying to send some kind of message and then you're right akil.



01:23:26.940 --> 01:23:32.340

Hong Lieu: you're not trying to make examples of people you're trying to set a standard and lives that standard that's what you ask them all your athletes.



01:23:32.580 --> 01:23:41.610

Hong Lieu: Everyone that separately for everyone who's involved with that program you want to send example and live up to the example, so the people in charge of it if you're not living up to example you know living up to that standard.



01:23:42.150 --> 01:23:47.700

Hong Lieu: Then yeah you got to go, you know there's there's no other way to do it because they didn't get someone else that can actually follow that standard like.



01:23:47.910 --> 01:23:57.780

Hong Lieu: We don't want to make examples out of people, we want to set standards and have people live up to those standards and be true to the to the to the to the aims of the program you're trying to get people to be better human beings.



01:23:58.140 --> 01:24:03.570

Hong Lieu: And you're treating them like this and you're and you're sending examples like this, I mean someone literally has to go, I mean.



01:24:04.200 --> 01:24:10.920

Hong Lieu: The optics of it are terrible they had to know someone who's I mean we're in a social media connected world you're talking about not being okay with technology.



01:24:11.130 --> 01:24:24.480

Hong Lieu: And someone from the you know the finance team they really think like this was not going to get online in some way, no one's gonna notice that they literally had those like like calisthenics bbls it wasn't even like a weight that it was like oh man that was that was atrocious.



01:24:24.990 --> 01:24:28.410

Ellen O'Connor: But I think on you, you just hit on the on the on the major point which was.



01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:43.110

Ellen O'Connor: Nobody did notice, I mean you had to have a strength and conditioning coach from Stanford and that's done a Prince the student athletes put it out there that well look at these differences Oh, and then there's food and then there's the swag bag and all the other kinds of things.



01:24:43.200 --> 01:24:47.880

Ellen O'Connor: yeah the fact that you know it's either you notice and you don't care.



01:24:48.780 --> 01:25:04.710

Ellen O'Connor: or you're just so blinded that you don't even you don't even again, you see where the nc double a we can do anything you know you're not seeing what you really got to have to be saying I don't know I just align with you akil, I would like to see a change in leadership.



01:25:06.120 --> 01:25:10.650

Ellen O'Connor: And 115 years in the nc double a one one female.



01:25:11.670 --> 01:25:13.920

Ellen O'Connor: it's like President si.



01:25:15.060 --> 01:25:20.910

Ellen O'Connor: g sweet, although i've said that to several people and the response I get is really there was one God surprised.



01:25:21.780 --> 01:25:22.680

Akil Hill: yeah yeah.



01:25:23.490 --> 01:25:26.280

Ellen O'Connor: One on a phone that's 20% what are you complaining about.



01:25:26.670 --> 01:25:34.260

Akil Hill: See here's one of the thing and cuz i'll get this this kind of triggers me because here's the thing and i'll and i'll start with this, but.



01:25:34.890 --> 01:25:45.840

Akil Hill: The problem around this is like we can't control what other individuals, say, or what comes out of other individuals smells but as an institution.



01:25:46.410 --> 01:25:56.370

Akil Hill: You can control the narrative in terms of how you what you value and so that's the frustrating piece for me on this it's like no nc double a you didn't care.



01:25:56.820 --> 01:26:03.420

Akil Hill: That you only care because you got caught and they're going to give us an apology, which we know you're not sincere, because if you really were sincere.



01:26:04.380 --> 01:26:15.840

Akil Hill: This would have never ever could have ever occurred, you know and so that's my piece on it it's like people gotta start losing their jobs, we got to start getting women in spaces, where.



01:26:17.010 --> 01:26:23.970

Akil Hill: They can be seen and heard and and elevate their voices because it's not getting that you know it's just frustrating.



01:26:24.570 --> 01:26:25.650

Ellen O'Connor: yeah i'll send you.



01:26:26.040 --> 01:26:33.960

Ellen O'Connor: You can put it in the show notes, if you want i'll send you a link to a piece that Sally jenkinson of the Washington Post its outstanding.



01:26:34.350 --> 01:26:46.680

Ellen O'Connor: Did you know that the women I didn't notice that the winner of the women's tournament gets zero dollars in compensation and, of course, on the men's side if you appear in the tournament I think it's a $2 million payout.



01:26:47.220 --> 01:26:48.900

Hong Lieu: With the university doesn't get anything either.



01:26:49.470 --> 01:26:50.130




01:26:51.630 --> 01:26:52.050

Hong Lieu: wow.



01:26:54.480 --> 01:26:57.060

Ellen O'Connor: yeah i'll send you the i'll send you the link to her watch I.



01:26:57.060 --> 01:26:57.300

Ellen O'Connor: Would.



01:26:57.390 --> 01:26:58.500

Hong Lieu: I would definitely look.



01:26:58.500 --> 01:27:01.320

Hong Lieu: For that, in the show notes, you know and it's something that akil.



01:27:01.740 --> 01:27:08.160

Hong Lieu: I mean, as mentioned and it's true like you talked about the all decision making, you had to do Ellen when you were adjusting protocols a coven.



01:27:08.430 --> 01:27:22.380

Hong Lieu: These are decisions that get made signed off on and double checked it is it's three to five people it's not just one person, you know this is multiple chains of command that absolutely failed or abdicated their duties, because.



01:27:22.980 --> 01:27:29.700

Hong Lieu: I mean anyone on the ground, would see that this is a problem and that's the other part of it is these folks are two elevated from the situations that are in.



01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:40.230

Hong Lieu: They have no one to check them and they have and they know that if someone did check them, maybe slap on the wrist like you know, like, I can I can have my assistant draft apology, so the cows come home but it doesn't you know they.



01:27:40.680 --> 01:27:42.570

Hong Lieu: would just no sweat off my back at the end of the day.



01:27:42.960 --> 01:27:50.700

Hong Lieu: And it's just it's just one of those things where it happens, I just didn't stipulate This is all organizations, we talked about Jim Collins, you know good to great this is that the folks at the top.



01:27:51.330 --> 01:28:05.370

Hong Lieu: In Great situations are actually leaders and then in all other situations they're really not they're just there they suck up on the power they get high off the sauce and then you know, then they get they get corrupted by its power is ultimately ultimately corrupting as well.



01:28:05.670 --> 01:28:12.330

Hong Lieu: Because you already talked about you know I talked about boxing chapter there it's about losing about getting it back if you lose about don't don't have any desire tried.



01:28:12.750 --> 01:28:21.270

Hong Lieu: Then, then how much of a leader how how how much did you really want it and, and I feel like we should we should be taking more of our leaders, a task, how much do you really want this, how much do you really want to be.



01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:30.810

Hong Lieu: The change, you want to see in the world, you know and it's unfortunate that time and time again we are shown, most of them don't care at all and and and yeah and it's it's unfortunate but.



01:28:31.230 --> 01:28:36.630

Hong Lieu: you hope to see that the younger generations are picking up the mantle because these you seem to be aware of these things that are cognizant of it.



01:28:36.960 --> 01:28:47.760

Hong Lieu: You just hope that they're given the opportunity to elevate themselves those positions to make these decisions in the future, which right now there are structures in place that are preventing that as well yeah I guess we're all little triggered and we're we're all taking this all.



01:28:48.330 --> 01:28:54.150

Hong Lieu: yeah yeah it's it's a conversation that we have to have it i'm glad we had your day for sure yeah.



01:28:54.480 --> 01:29:04.950

Akil Hill: I mean, then, also to do i'll say this too is like I mean we just have to, and then, when I say we i'm meaning like you know, like me and just have to do better like we that's the reality like.



01:29:05.250 --> 01:29:13.920

Akil Hill: If, and this is gonna sound maybe controversial, but if it was up to women to fix and solve this problem guess what it would have been fixed and solved already.



01:29:14.910 --> 01:29:16.740

Ellen O'Connor: That is yes, sir.



01:29:17.700 --> 01:29:18.990

Hong Lieu: more equitable heads.



01:29:19.980 --> 01:29:21.510

Ellen O'Connor: It would have been saw I agree.



01:29:22.440 --> 01:29:26.640

Akil Hill: So then it's not being soft So what does that tell us anyways i'm good.



01:29:26.760 --> 01:29:35.190

Hong Lieu: i'm doing tells it tells us that the methodology, the process which they got their positions that they are at it was was you know slightly.



01:29:36.540 --> 01:29:37.140

Hong Lieu: foul.



01:29:39.420 --> 01:29:41.580

Hong Lieu: One in one in one don't know bonus right there.



01:29:41.730 --> 01:29:42.270




01:29:44.400 --> 01:29:44.790

Akil Hill: yeah.



01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:58.950

Ellen O'Connor: Well yeah that's a You know, as I said, I just don't you it doesn't shock me and yet, and I, you know I know there i'm not sure who the senior executive is that's in charge of events.



01:30:00.150 --> 01:30:04.680

Ellen O'Connor: And you know oftentimes people make mistakes, regardless of gender.



01:30:06.360 --> 01:30:14.910

Ellen O'Connor: You know, in terms of you know, not all women, I think, have the right answers, and not all men, I think, have the right answers, I think, having.



01:30:15.870 --> 01:30:27.060

Ellen O'Connor: Multiple viewpoints in decision making can be valuable so that things don't get overlooked don't get you know swept aside don't get put in a position where.



01:30:27.990 --> 01:30:37.440

Ellen O'Connor: You know something doesn't happen because of you know we couldn't find a way to do it so yeah I agree with that keel more voices is better.



01:30:37.830 --> 01:30:38.850

Akil Hill: More voices always a.



01:30:39.150 --> 01:30:42.930

Hong Lieu: team of rivals there's a book about Abraham lincoln's presidency they made the movie about it and it's.



01:30:42.990 --> 01:30:49.980

Hong Lieu: that that was the main point was that you need the voice the table that would challenge you to every moment because you'll never challenge yourself and test your own thinking.



01:30:50.220 --> 01:30:55.350

Hong Lieu: Unless someone's pushing you and say hey you're crazy here and you're like well you know what let's let's just hash it all out.



01:30:55.860 --> 01:31:02.400

Hong Lieu: And it was a lot of editing a lot of conflict, but those conflicts, you know that resolved for the good of the nation so it's yeah yeah.



01:31:03.210 --> 01:31:07.680

Akil Hill: And you just don't find out what you have until you, you know bases are loaded and you don't have.



01:31:08.070 --> 01:31:14.520

Akil Hill: Any outs, you find out real quick, which you have if you're striking everyone out and what's popping up yeah great you're going to be happy because.



01:31:14.970 --> 01:31:23.040

Akil Hill: that's the only result that's the only place, you can be, but what I want to know is what do we have when you got bases loaded and knows what type of person do we have it.



01:31:24.180 --> 01:31:25.800

Akil Hill: it's not there, the times you.



01:31:25.890 --> 01:31:30.390

Akil Hill: Like figure out what you have it's through adversity, you really figure out what you have.



01:31:30.750 --> 01:31:36.000

Hong Lieu: And how many teams are you have the guy who subs himself out and pays for a ringer to come in from somewhere else you know.



01:31:39.210 --> 01:31:39.720

Akil Hill: yeah.



01:31:40.920 --> 01:31:49.860

Hong Lieu: So yeah that was truly higher learning, I feel like I feel like a better person, after having that conversation, which also thank, thank you, thank you both for that Thank you all for coming on the show today.



01:31:50.070 --> 01:31:50.550

Akil Hill: Is thanks.



01:31:51.090 --> 01:31:57.450

Ellen O'Connor: Ellen I appreciate this and it's so great that you've done the Carol voices and many more episodes to come.



01:31:57.810 --> 01:32:03.150

Hong Lieu: Yes, anything else you'd like to mention about the physical education or athletics before we send you on your way.



01:32:04.530 --> 01:32:15.780

Ellen O'Connor: You know I just probably just as a wrap up it's it's been really just a thrill to be able to work at Santa Barbara city college for as long as I have and be able to be a part of some.



01:32:16.560 --> 01:32:29.640

Ellen O'Connor: growth and expansion for women's athletics growth and expansion in physical activity for our students, because I believe it's really one of the keys, that we must have for our students is the ability to.



01:32:30.540 --> 01:32:35.940

Ellen O'Connor: grow physically, as well as mentally I mean the data are so clear about being able to.



01:32:37.890 --> 01:32:48.240

Ellen O'Connor: You know, develop as a whole person mind body spirit and i'm glad that i'm at an institution that values that that values that the whole student.



01:32:48.840 --> 01:32:56.100

Ellen O'Connor: and providing those opportunities for people to be to experience all of that it not only for mental health but.



01:32:56.970 --> 01:33:11.280

Ellen O'Connor: Also, to improve you know, cognitive function, we just see students do better, when they are physically fit and are moving in that direction so i'm glad to be a part of that it's been a great thrill over the course of my time here.



01:33:13.800 --> 01:33:22.380

Hong Lieu: i'm sure if he shared those sentiments as grateful that you've been here for long you happy to help guides to you know the students, that you have we're grateful to have you here on the show today as well.



01:33:23.400 --> 01:33:24.660

Akil Hill: yeah definitely honored.



01:33:25.380 --> 01:33:26.880

Ellen O'Connor: Well, thank you, my pleasure.



01:33:28.140 --> 01:33:30.600

Hong Lieu: And thank you to all the listeners to tune for tuning in today.



01:33:31.860 --> 01:33:34.050

Hong Lieu: until next time this was Vaquero Voices.