Akil and Hong welcome Linda Esparza Dozer to the show to discuss Title IX at SBCC and what recent changes to the law mean for the SBCC community. From there, the trio discuss Linda's previous career as an FBI agent and Deputy District Attorney; "Good Eatin'" touches on classic Mexican food restaurants in Santa Barbara and Ventura, Indian Food, and Persian favorites like Koobideh and Cherry Rice; "Higher Learning" highlights some of Linda's pandemic binge-watches, along with some recent punk/screamo albums worth checking out and an amazing cookbook by Sami Tamimi featuring a foreward from Yotam Ottolenghi.
Mentioned in this episode:
SBCC Title IX - https://www.sbcc.edu/titleix/
Trump Administration Title IX Changes - https://www.theregreview.org/2020/05/20/downey-trump-administration-title-ix-rule/
Johnny's - http://orderjohnnysmexicanfood.com/
Taqueria El Tapatio #5 - https://www.yelp.com/biz/taqueria-el-tapatio-5-ventura
Lito's - https://www.litossb.com/
El Bajio - http://www.elbajiosb.com/
Ghirardelli Chocolate - https://www.ghirardelli.com/
Renaud's - https://renaudsbistro.com/
Bree'osh - https://breeosh.com/
Cafe Nouveau - http://cafenouveau.net/
Cajun Kitchen - https://cajunkitchencafe.com/
Lilly's Tacos - http://lillystacos.com/
Flavor of India - https://www.flavorofindiasb.com/
Apna - https://apnasb.com/
Bibi Ji - https://bibijisb.com/
Tibet Nepal House - https://www.tibetnepalhouse.com/
Sadaf Thousand Oaks - https://www.sadafencino.com/thousand-oaks-menu
Koobideh - https://persianmama.com/kabob-koobideh-grilled-minced-meat-kabobs/
Cherry Rice - https://www.finecooking.com/recipe/sour-cherry-persian-rice
Queen's Gambit - https://www.netflix.com/title/80234304
Hanna - https://www.amazon.com/Hanna-Season-1/dp/B0875LY98Q
Handmaid's Tale - https://www.hulu.com/series/the-handmaids-tale-565d8976-9d26-4e63-866c-40f8a137ce5f
Walking Dead - https://www.amc.com/twdu/the-walking-dead
Bosch - https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Season-1/dp/B089XWNZ4W
Teenage Halloween - https://teenagehalloween.bandcamp.com/album/teenage-halloween
Within One Stem - https://closernyc.bandcamp.com/album/within-one-stem
Falastin - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/570405/falastin-by-sami-tamimi-and-tara-wigley-foreword-by-yotam-ottolenghi/
Kefta - https://tasteofmaroc.com/kefta-dyal-gharb-recipe
Caste - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/653196/caste-oprahs-book-club-by-isabel-wilkerson/
White Tiger - https://www.netflix.com/title/80202877
Captions provided by Zoom
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Hong Lieu: hello, and welcome to another episode of SBC SBCC Vaquero Voices - a podcast highlighting the unique voices that comprise our campus culture and how we're all working together to serve our students in the community at large, as usual i'm joined by my co host to kill hill.
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Akil Hill: Is that the Co host or your coast.
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Hong Lieu: it's all you need.
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Hong Lieu: By the.
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Hong Lieu: By the Co host of the show.
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Akil Hill: what's up everybody.
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Akil Hill: that's going on.
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Hong Lieu: Thank you for that, thank you for checking me there.
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Hong Lieu: And today, we are honored to welcome.
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Hong Lieu: Linda esparza dozer to the show welcome Linda.
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Akil Hill: hey welcome.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: guys, this is gonna be.
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Hong Lieu: fun yeah we're about to have a title nine could play right there for my.
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Akil Hill: And then the listeners aren't weren't, even if they didn't get this shot, where are they weren't able to listen to, I was given a hard time about when I log on zoom how I go straight to the waiting room, so I was.
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Akil Hill: I was pulling his leg about.
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Akil Hill: Like I was like can I get a Co host and here.
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Akil Hill: We only shot like 20 episodes and i'm still in the waiting room.
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Hong Lieu: And he is designated as the co he's official co host but I need to up my administrative game.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: that's right.
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Hong Lieu: But yes welcome Linda you are are the director of Title nine or what what, in terms of.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well, my official title is title nine and gender equity coordinator position that you guys at city college created.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: literally just two years ago.
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Hong Lieu: And and for folks that don't know a lot about title nine and a lot of folks always think about you know athletics and 1972 like we have the course bullet points.
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Hong Lieu: But title nine is so much more than that and it's such an all encompassing kind of piece of legislation if you can kind of go into that a little bit and then just kind of break it down for folks only have a cursory knowledge of it.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Yes, and it's so important because it affects the entire campus community from students to employees to visitors administrators and it's so frustrating because title nine you know, unlike a lot of things that we all are.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: required to learn title mine's not one of them there's no required title nine learning so so educating people about it in the behavior that's not acceptable.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: is challenging so any anything like this i'm so so happy and appreciative to be on a show that might reach some of our campus community but title nine is it's a federal civil rights law in education and you're right on it came into play in the 70s and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It prohibits gender discrimination and gender discrimination, basically, is is comprised of sexual harassment sexual assault, it also includes stalking and domestic violence and dating violence.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And it's a requirement for K through 12 and for colleges any school that receives federal funding.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: To respond to allegations and they need to respond in a way that you are offering support and supportive measures to people that have been affected.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: which can be the person that's making the complaint or it can be the person who's accused the respondent.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So we offer those supportive measures to anyone involved in a complaint, but probably the biggest thing about title nine these days you guys that has made it really crazy is that in August under the prior presidential administration.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: There was implementation of new title nine law very, very comprehensive procedurally comprehensive title nine law that now requires.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Basically, very it's geared towards what they like to say is due process, but very formal requirements of notice and opportunity to be heard an opportunity to cross examine.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: accusers and witnesses, which culminates if you file a formal title mine complaint, it can culminate in a hearing alive hearing.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And in that hearing each party must have an advisor that does cross examination and you have to have.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: An adjudicator a decision maker that will listen to the witnesses and come to a decision after there's been a long investigation and this hearing so it's really it's very challenging, as you can imagine, because it's made it kind of quasi courtroom at college.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And that's that's been really challenging but so far we're we are meeting the challenge, but the other probably bigger challenges that I expect this model change now with the new administration.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah how it's going to change, I don't know because what the the former administration did is they open it up to public comment, and in so doing, which was almost I think an 18 month process.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It the new title nine law is law so overturning it will be very difficult, unless you unless, for instance, the Biden administration does the same thing, and they have a public comment because you can he can.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Our new President can enact executive orders to try to steer indirect things but.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: What we have now is the law that we have to abide by and it's made that much more difficult because we also have California law, and we have got.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: court decisions, for instance, you know California appellate court decisions, none of the cases have gone to the Supreme Court yet that's just a matter of time, in my opinion.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And we've got policy we've got city college policies that we have to contend with, so you have to look at all of those layers and make sure you're in compliance with all of.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Sorry.
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Hong Lieu: That was a mouthful, no, no.
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Akil Hill: I don't envy I don't envy I don't give you.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: That.
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Hong Lieu: that's what we need, it was that breakdown, because a lot of folks are like you know you read the bullet points 1972 athletics, you know, like.
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Hong Lieu: Quote unquote fair playing field, but now you see that what the nuances really like where.
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Hong Lieu: Okay, you have these new regulations come in oh having adjudicator will have this and you played under this guys have like a fair and balanced process.
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Hong Lieu: But what what I mean the the underside of that is the it puts the onus on the the investigation.
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Hong Lieu: You know the victims, the folks that are really traumatized they really haven't I mean you're asking them to put themselves out there and in some cases like you're saying in public settings I mean this is i'm.
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Hong Lieu: it's unconscionable you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: We all know what we all know, our listeners, and you guys know is that you know sexual assault sexually violent crimes are probably the most underreported crime we see out there, and when I say crime, a lot of our title mind violations are criminal okay so let's focus on that for a second.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: you've got you've got victims survivors who already have been traumatized by the sheer violent act that they've endured.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But then you've got to tell your story repeatedly if you want to go through either the criminal process or the title nine process which is is an educational process it's a disciplinary process, but you still have the same trauma that you're repeating but.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: On the other hand, we do have to recognize that if you long or a que was accused by someone of sexual assault you to have rights.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I, as the investigator have got to be fair to both of you, I cannot presume.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well, I can be empathetic with my survivors, and I can get them all to help in the world, and I could steer them to counseling and work with their professors.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I also do the same for someone who's been accused, because I have to by law and you to have a right to you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You can't question someone if you don't know what they're accusing you of so it's a real difficult juggling act and it's you know it certainly frustrates.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: survivor rights groups and survivors, and it also frustrates respondents previously when they felt that they didn't have rights and, unfortunately.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: A lot of the new law was as a result of of cases across America, and not so much, yes, there were cases in California, but.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Some cases where you, you would read the facts and you would say wow they didn't allow this, or they didn't allow that and so.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: it's a very imperfect law, and I certainly don't agree with all of it, but there are aspects that are good so i'm hoping the new administration can kind of pick and choose what might be good and put in what might be better.
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Hong Lieu: yeah it's that balance of dude the dude idea of due process.
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Hong Lieu: Sure it's kind of you know, the protecting the nuances in circumstances, because what happens in every situation when all these regulations come in effect.
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Hong Lieu: lawyers and come in and nitpick and find loopholes and worms and ways around it, and this and that and and and you know it create situations where you have the strong arm, you know types of lawyers who can.
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Hong Lieu: kind of course not, I mean maybe probably bully but but and that's when you end up having you know folks recant testimonies or withdraw claims because of intimidation things of that sort, so so it just.
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Hong Lieu: I see it, opening up more avenues for that, but I do agree with the Court tentative in providing this fully you know clinical fair investigation and due process, because you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: The interesting thing to you guys is that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: A lot of states in the United States.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Absolutely are behind the eight ball way behind California, in that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: They never had to deal with a hearing California California court law for the past couple of years has been in sexual assault cases, you will have a live hearing.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So so well, you always hear that California is kind of more progressive and on the forefront of a lot of things they definitely were in this situation.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It doesn't you know it certainly didn't make it easy but it's in line with a new law so.
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Hong Lieu: yeah and I also think about how these crimes you our current a spectrum, like the farthest end the most extreme is always going to be the most heinous but the less extreme that you know, like the.
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Hong Lieu: The more innocuous kind of things that you'd be tempted to say hey this that was not cool that was not Okay, I need to report this, but you see that daunting wall of like criteria you meet and then you're like.
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Hong Lieu: it's just now, I mean, not to say it's not worth it, but i'm just not going to go through that process because it's just going to just be a big rigmarole you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Sad, because that is our problem that's our problem with Title nine and you're right though I mean a lot of people look at and go.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I don't want to deal with it, I don't want to report it I don't want to go through it and I think the most important thing that I like to tell people, especially our employees is.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Even if it's something small and you go yeah this doesn't even sound like it's a title nine violation, you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: send it to me because it's an opportunity for me to probably reach out to someone and probably just nicely educate them of hey.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: just wanted to let you know that perhaps you, you know you might want to give a trigger warning.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: To this information because you've got sexual assault survivors in your class and if it's on your syllabus that might make it, you know more palatable to some of these survivors just little things like that that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It can be so helpful and probably the most important thing that that I know is so misunderstood is that when it comes to Title nine it's sexual harassment sexual assault and those types of offenses if a disclosure is made to any employee I don't care if you are.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Maybe working on our grounds or in our cafeteria or if you're a professor, or the President of the school I don't care, who you are you're a mandatory reporter when it comes to a student.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You need to tell me about that disclosure and what happens is I like to look at it is.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I am lifting a weight off of your shoulders because I then will reach out to that student and I will see what they need, and I can tell you a lot of times.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: They don't want to talk to me they don't respond they're fine you know they just what, for whatever reason, they don't want to deal with it.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Others are so happy and so appreciative and they say oh God i'd like to just i've got an appointment today at 545 with a student It just wants to talk through options and ideas and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It doesn't take you know all these offenses have one thing in common, and it is that a victim or survivor is stripped of their control okay.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: They are stripped of their power and control and so when it when it comes to me, and someone has reported to me, I think that a lot of these survivors and even employees that are are worried that wow we're just taking control away again.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And that's not the case, because it's still it resides with the victim survivor they can choose and that's what I like to tell them is.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: This is about you, I am not going to do anything that you don't want me to do I want you to know what your rights and your resources are what's available to you.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But i'm not going to make you do anything if if you are traumatized and you want to walk away that's completely fine.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: there's only really one circumstance, when I would have to take over and be the reporter, and it probably wouldn't go well, but that's when there's a bigger safety risk to the Community, and that would come into play, if there is.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Perhaps an individual who's attacked multiple people and all those multiple people I have found out about and none of them wants to go forward, I might have to go forward saying whoa well we've got a safety risk here, but that would.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: For reasons we won't go into that would make it very difficult to proceed.
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Akil Hill: I like the idea that you touched on about you know, putting it on your syllabus or putting it in places where.
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Akil Hill: Where we can start to like normalize the process of saying or communicating.
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Akil Hill: To victims that we're here, I think a piece of it is.
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Akil Hill: By not saying anything you're actually really saying something right so.
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Akil Hill: You know so again i've been on campus and I remember reading in a few places I think you have posters and flyers and.
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Akil Hill: I just I remember seeing that i'm like yeah, this is what it needs to be, we have to kind of bring it to light and make it.
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Akil Hill: It sounds horrible but to normalize and there's some sense of what the procedure and the processes are so people aren't feeling left out and or students or or people will be more likely to speak up on what they're experiencing.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well, and I gotta tell you the most rewarding thing has been and it's exactly what you just touched on heightening that awareness and trying to reach out to as many people as possible with education and really touching them.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: i've had students that come into my office and they hold up their phone to me with a picture of my poster they said, are you this person.
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Or you this person.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And i'm i'm so excited that they're there, I mean i'm sad that it's not good.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But i'm happy that they have found me and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: they've taken that picture So yes.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I hope it's not normalizing it, but at the same time it kind of is, in the sense of they need to know that it's unacceptable and it's normal to make a complaint and get out.
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Hong Lieu: Exactly and it's something where i've always looked at as as a mandatory reporter because before I was working here, I was working at the city and we were mandatory reporters then as well it's freeing for me.
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Hong Lieu: Because it there's no decision for me to make there's no moral quandary don't mind should I should I.
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Hong Lieu: I have to so it's easy for me in that respect, because there's no circumstance, where I say, well, I better hold it no, I have to 100% every single time.
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Hong Lieu: But for students for folks that are you know, like it, and those are the more tenured situations, these are your friends.
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Hong Lieu: Your classmates these are you know these are the you just kicking it, you know, like whatever it is that that's that that's that decision that goes back and forth, but.
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Hong Lieu: It was always freeing for me, because I know in every circumstance, with my decision is and other folks don't have that benefit, you know so so it's.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: What I like to I also because there's got to be a little bit of wiggle room, I mean everything shouldn't be 100% black and white.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: there's a little wiggle room in the sense that, if you have, because I think all employees have have.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Experienced making a connection with a student or a couple of students and that student feels really comfortable with you, and they might disclose something to you, whereas they wouldn't to other people, so you feel.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: i've had a lot of professors tell me, I feel like i'm violating their trust I really don't want to do this, I want, I want to tell them about you and they can decide.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well that's true you could but that's not our policy and what I like to tell them, which I think is really important for everyone to consider.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Is that if you feel that the student is going to disclose something to you that you go this is going down a very personal path that might be very traumatic.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You can stop them, you can say I am here to listen and to help you, but I need you to know I need you to know that this is something dealing with you know, sexual harassment or sexual assault.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I will have to inform our title nine coordinator and you still are in control of your own decision, but I just want you to know that, because if you if you feel the need to talk to someone confidentially.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I should send you over to the personal counselors because they are confidential, you know listeners.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So I always tell people, you can do that if you want and most I think most students will continue to confide in you, because they trust you, and if you make it clear to them that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: i'm not going to violate your your trust and confidence, I want you to know what your rights are so i'm sending you over to Linda and she will work with you, but you still are in control of what happens.
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Hong Lieu: and using that for using that term you know control, giving them some control back, I mean.
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Hong Lieu: Just these are, I mean no matter where it is on the spectrum how extreme anything is.
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Hong Lieu: There is trauma inflicted at the end of the day, you know and it's just it's just trauma mitigation and control.
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Hong Lieu: And being control the narrative or being control of how your story is told being control how you choose present this information, I mean that that that that helps a lot, I mean it's it's you know it starts the process of healing it really.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: definitely does that that loss of control that's been inflicted on you, you know, having some control over what now happens is so important yeah.
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Akil Hill: yeah it also seems in some ways, empowering because.
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Akil Hill: it's giving them the options right it's giving them options of like deciding what they want to do in terms of how they can begin that healing process and.
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Akil Hill: And I know just from students just dealing with students at work like you want to give them all the options right and.
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Akil Hill: And then you know they walk away or they may walk away feeling like okay I got I got support and then now I have information and then now I have options and and so Those are the things that.
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Akil Hill: You know that we need to always continuously inform our students of you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah I think that that's 100% right.
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Hong Lieu: And and just to be clear, this is kind of in effect 24 seven you know, like if it is like the weekend, or you know out at a friend's House on a Sunday morning, I mean.
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Hong Lieu: They can they can report incidents that have incidents happen anytime anywhere, or is there a certain kind of jurisdiction that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: encompasses yeah see that's it that's that's part of the new law that has been interesting.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So, if an incident occurs under the new title nine law.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: If it is not within an educational program or activity, those are the key buzzwords so meaning if it was not on campus in a classroom on a field trip.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know, perhaps you know some classrooms are are off campus but if it doesn't connect to education.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It won't be title mine, however, just to confuse things that complaint would still come to Title mine, and I would explain that to them and then let them know that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: That doesn't mean that city college ignores what's what happened, it means that if your students.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It will go to student conduct in, and it will be evaluated investigated as a student conduct violation if it's an employee it'll go to HR should say if it's a student employee involved case it'll go to hr.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: and obviously there, the first thing is, is it a crime it's up to the.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Victim survivor do I want to make a police report, and if they do not, then, do they want to make a school report, and if so.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know, I hope that they'll they'll complete a report, a concern or walk into my office or call me or email me or someone an employee will tell them how do, how do I get heard.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And then I will walk them through these are your options, this is what we have.
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Hong Lieu: So first step first step would be to contact you in some way be a report, a concern or you know the phone number or email or any any any way they can touch with you, that would be the first step.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: that'd be great or if they get Ahold of an employee have that employee, you know i've gotten just this this week already i've gotten emails from Professor saying hey I had this situation you know in my zoom classroom or I have this information via canvas.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Can you reach out to the student, can you, what can you do, and so, at least we get it started.
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Akil Hill: I was thinking what are um it okay so i'm i'm just trying to think if i'm a college student i'm trying to rewind back all these years.
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Akil Hill: And I am.
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Akil Hill: So i'm a new College student campus and i'm just curious where are the resource is there is there a place other resources are listed, I know, back in the day, they would give us a sheet like this is pretty much like the code of conduct or the students.
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Akil Hill: Are you know kind of is that, where is it is that found anywhere that where the students can access the title nine information prior to them or once they've been accepted into the College.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well there's I think there's I think that there's a couple of ways, I think, most importantly, and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: There is a welcome for new students and I think before coven that welcome was done in person, and I think it was at least half a day, where different departments got up and talked about different things.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I haven't been asked to go in person, which I would welcome that opportunity, but we have a virtual manual basically of what the students need to review, which includes title nine.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So you have that exposure there you also if you're an athlete you have exposure with our presentations are our direct presentations about title line with both winter and spring athletes.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And you know there's I think that, I mean my title nine as home, though, since he created it website.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Has you know a lot of information good links to our policies, I think, in this this part because title nine at least works sort of with student conduct and with hr.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You do get exposure to Title nine with those departments as well, depending on you know, are you a are you a student worker, are you, you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: In government are you, you know what is your connection and we try to put as much title nine in their face, but again akil you hit the nail on the head.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Some exposure, you know is mandatory but training is not so that's my biggest frustration.
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Akil Hill: yeah it's so true.
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Hong Lieu: And and are you the point of contact for questions or you molly moll only dealing with kind of reports investigations like if folks have questions about title nine is it more of a go to the dean of you know, go to student affairs or something student services.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Oh God, no one knows what I.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I am me myself and I have a title mind department, I will say that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: The Deputy Thailand coordinator and Adrian Betty is a rock star she's awesome phenomenal and I don't know what I would do without her.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: She knows a lot about timeline and she like if i'm on vacation she definitely is someone that can answer questions.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But anyone else on campus really has no idea, so it comes to me and i'm, I think, from my previous career i'm so used to being on call 24 seven I respond to people on the weekends and at night, and whenever, so I definitely answer questions all the time.
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Hong Lieu: yeah and folks folks need to know that that is another feather in the cap NSPCC that.
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Hong Lieu: That having Linda here is kind of a boon yo she's easy to talk to she knows what she's talking about I mean there, there should be aiming keep if anyone has any questions there's curious by any aspects of Title nine.
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Hong Lieu: I mean there shouldn't be any keeping you from from from finding when I get in touch with her because she's you know she's a fount of knowledge and she's good at communicating and she's just a nice great person so.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Oh, I love you.
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Akil Hill: Yes, I would have to echo that I would have.
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Hong Lieu: Great cooking.
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Hong Lieu: to blow up your spot Linda but.
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Akil Hill: But here's the thing also to what I really have to say, and I was excited about having you on the show is that.
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Akil Hill: You know people in positions like this, have to be and they're not always are right, where there aren't welcome in opening and allowing the student to feel comfortable or the person feeling comfortable.
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Akil Hill: That goes a long way, you know I mean I think back to some situations and i'm in have been in and are people that also that I know i've been in and the people.
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Akil Hill: can be cold or stoic in a lot of ways, and then that interns doesn't get the person to open up, so I just have to say that.
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Akil Hill: You know, you know, having you on campus and just that welcoming and inviting and inclusive type of personality that you have with you is is definitely a benefit in access to SPC so and I do want cookies, by the way.
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Akil Hill: You.
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Akil Hill: Know nice nice no nuts, no.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: No.
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Akil Hill: yeah Thank you.
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Hong Lieu: Well, no, nothing.
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Akil Hill: No, no, no, no.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: macadamia nuts.
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Akil Hill: Yes, see when I have the same taste we're on.
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Hong Lieu: This so macadamia nuts are fine, but every other.
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Hong Lieu: Week yeah I mean.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Definitely know how much will it.
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Akil Hill: yeah.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: i'm with Linda all the way, do you guys want to know a funny story.
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Akil Hill: This here oh.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well, maybe it's funny to me, you can tell me.
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Akil Hill: To be funny okay.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So when I when I was first thinking about applying for this job.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I had been on campus really good friend of mine is Professor Dave Saunders over in the school of justice and I had just been a speaker at his class.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: On 911, and so I was there, speaking, and the next day I look at my email, and he says, oh hey Linda the College is hiring someone and it's like the exact description of you, you should apply.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And so I go that's interesting you know, and I i've been in my current job for 22 years yeah I could I could retire and pick up a new job in Santa Barbara Okay, so I opened it up and it says title nine coordinator and I went oh hell no delete.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I actually had been aware of all the problems with Title nine and there specifically had been a very, very nasty problematic case out at ucsb that was written up.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: In you know, an appellate court decision in California, of what you do not do as a college, I mean it was bad really bad and so.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: He sent it to me again i'm old delete.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: He sent it to me a couple times, he goes okay I got the message, do you know anyone else that you know, is an investigator and a lawyer that might consider this and i'm all Okay, you know I guess give it to people suckers.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know, we did that and literally it was probably.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: A month before the job announcement closed and I thought about it, and I was like Oh, what the heck I should just apply and see if I can get an interview, so I did my application, like the night before it was do had to write an essay I was like oh my gosh.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know.
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So.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I did it and it was fine and you guys, there is nothing better than going to a job interview when you have a job when you're in a job and when you're not sure if you want that other job you pretty much can say whatever you want.
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Akil Hill: It isn't ready it's definitely liberating.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It was very liberating and and the one thing i've learned about city college because i've never worked directly in higher education i've worked with higher education, but never in it.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I walked into that interview, and there was, I think, oh I don't know 10 people sitting around the table, because you have shared governance and you have all these representatives and I walk i'm going.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: To go look at all these people, and it was I literally came to sit down at that first interview and I had been out the night before sadly at the thousand oaks massacre.
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Akil Hill: So I had been working The night before.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And I almost canceled my interview, but I said okay i'll just go do it, and it was.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It was such a unique experience of everyone, you know, asking questions you know, taking turns and the thing that became clear to me, which was hysterical.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Was that and I had done some research on city college and on title nine positions and different colleges was that.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Most colleges used an existing employee, like the dean of students or the HR person to be the title nine coordinator and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: The problem was most most these people were incompetent and they weren't I mean they were getting their school sued by the decisions they made and by the horrible investigations, so I just let it rip and I told these.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: What are you guys thinking you can't have your dean of students do this, you know, this is, this is a position where you have got traumatized survivors that need to be interviewed.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: you've got witnesses you've got evidence I go, you have got to have a real investigator and and a lawyer would be probably good to and they're looking at me like really.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But it was it was such a fun and funny experience after many, many deletes of the application.
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Akil Hill: Maybe that's the trick maybe you got delete the job.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: me four times yeah exactly that's what I was.
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Hong Lieu: Like those motivational things were like oh yeah just when you're giving a speech picture everyone naked, no, no, you have to go into it, thinking that you don't yeah you don't need the job and you're comfortable where you're at just that.
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Hong Lieu: that's that level of that that level of confidence and swagger you need when you you're going in there as it's like a cherry on the sundae and not yeah exactly so.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah but but picturing people naked when you're given a speech is good, except when you laugh.
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Hong Lieu: It doesn't work like oh yeah that would just be very awkward for me in my mind in my brain, which is already very awkward as it is.
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Hong Lieu: So that does bring us to our segue of what what your path to SPC in terms of what you're doing before where you were Where would you know what you're leading up to this point.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I certainly yeah I certainly have had a couple careers before us bcc.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know, so I came to sbc and it was really kind of a scary transition.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: After being an FBI agent for 22 years and it was a scary transition because.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I think there's a lot of.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: misunderstanding and lack of understanding between the two professions and having worked, as I said, with city college and with ucsb and westmont and schools in Los Angeles.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You definitely had, I mean there were a lot of individuals that had no love for law enforcement and there were individuals.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: That were downright mean and nasty.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And you know what that's their right, and perhaps something I can only hope that something caused them to be that way, as opposed to not giving someone a fair chance.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But I was kind of nervous, I was really kind of nervous and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I was hopeful that that city college would be more accepting in the sense of my first 10 years as an agent.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I did civil rights, I was a civil rights investigator, I did hate crimes and I did police brutality So for me, I felt like hey i've got some credibility because.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: No one hates a bad cop, or an extremist more than me, and it is, it was that hope that there was some you know but, but then my next 10 years you know I did terrorism, I was a national security investigator, so I did international terrorism, I did some domestic terrorism.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And my final year and a half, Hong is you know I did espionage and my concentration was Chinese espionage, so it was a it was a weird interesting mix I think of a career coming into working for college.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But I also think that what what you take from all of that is, I have a lot of experience with investigating and with Hong I mean akil, as you pointed out, with.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: interviewing and rapport building and and really being a chameleon to who am I interviewing knowing what their needs are for them to feel safe and comfortable and talking to me.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And then, on top of that, prior to my FBI career, I was a deputy district attorney so having you know the legal experience and the legal knowledge and you know, having actually been in court and and jury trials was.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know something extra that in this title nine craziness has allowed me to really understand some of the title nine good rules and bad rules so that's what brought me here and i'm home you guys i'm from Santa Barbara I grew up here i've got the gigantic tour Mexican family.
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Akil Hill: What high school, did you go to the.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Sam Marcus.
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whoa.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I know the door, always a dorm.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And I know you're gonna say Mickey Marcus Mickey more.
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Akil Hill: Yes, yes.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And, but so yeah I mean i'm from here and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It was i've always worked like I was assigned to the La FBI, and even though I worked out of interest Santa Barbara and I did a lot of traveling and I had cases that took me, you know across the country a lot.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So it was cool to come home and and it was really cool actually you know I did my first two years of high school at city college, so I feel like I was super home grown and connected to city college.
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Akil Hill: Yes, that's awesome.
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Hong Lieu: And like I said he seemed like the perfect person for the job because, having that legal background.
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Hong Lieu: And investigative background investigation in terms of the rapport building over there, but the legal background cuz title nine I mean it's such a hefty piece of legislation.
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Hong Lieu: That like if you come in coming in with the wrong approach, trying to be comprehensive, fully aware of everything now you just need to know enough to proceed need to know a little bit about everything, and because you're not going to learn everything about everything.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well it's you, you know this summer um it was a perfect time for us to be in lockdown because the new title nine law that was implemented on August 14 came out at the end of May.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And when it hit it was 2023 pages long, so I told my boss, Dr goswami I said, well, I guess i'll be reading the new law, this summer.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And I literally.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I like divided out how much I had to read every day in order to be able to produce a summary starting in July because I knew then we would have to have new policies, written by August.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So I read 100 pages, a day, seven days a week, I pretty much just lived in my pajamas my family was just like Oh, what are you doing today Oh, why are we asking your reading.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And so I feel like and i've done i've done a couple timeline trainings and while you are never going to be perfect there's always room to learn and and to be educated, but.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I know this damn law frickin inside and out and do I make mistakes i'm sure I know i've made mistakes, but at the same time.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I i've corrected trainers very nicely I know it all fashion of hey guess what it doesn't apply if you're not in the US, you know just little things little nuances that I got from reading the 2023 pages So yes.
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Akil Hill: My question, I have a question for you what so when you were little thinking back when you were little like an elementary school, did you know you want to become an FBI agent or at what point did you realize, I want to be an FBI agent, because I think everyone has a fantasy a little bit.
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Akil Hill: Some somewhere along the way you know some kind of since i'm actually talking to one or former when i'm kind of curious to hear at what point do the light go off.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I think I was pretty clueless I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was a kid I mean, I think I was so.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Just so happy playing sport and you know you know it was before, electronics, my God we.
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Akil Hill: yeah.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: They hide and seek till 10 o'clock at night in the street.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I hadn't I really had no idea, and then I know in junior high and really early high school, one of my friends his father was an FBI agent in Santa Barbara there used to be an office in Santa Barbara and he ran that office and when.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: He would talk about his job i'm sure he was embellishing it because it sounded so cool he would talk about you know old chasing the bad guys may be shooting at us and I know that's not really what happened.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But it sounded really exciting and it kind of was, I think planted a seed and boy, that would be cool.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But I really I don't think I started strongly thinking about it until I was in college.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But even in college, I honestly didn't really know what I wanted to do other than I had a class here at city College and the professor's no longer here a guy named Dr K, and it was a political science class.
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Akil Hill: Oh yeah.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I loved it, I was like this is awesome I love it I love just learning all this stuff, and so I became a political science major.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And I transferred UCLA and I stayed a poli SCI major, with an emphasis and constitutional law in public administration and I found the law to be interesting so during college I interned.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: With the Santa Barbara superior court, I did interviews for people accused of felonies to get out on there, or so I just you know I found truthfully crime and the criminal mind really fascinating and so I thought about the FBI again.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But then I was like oh I should give you have to have certain pathway into the FBI Mike Oh, they want lawyers, so I got my degree.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And I became you know, a da and then, when I was at the dean's office, one of my best friends there said hey the FBI is hiring what's apply, and I said yeah let's do it, and so we did and two other days applied after us and all four of us went off to the FBI Academy.
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Hong Lieu: And then, at some point you ended up in my in my neck of the woods, where I grew up in the San Gabriel Valley.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Yes, um well you know being assigned to La you certainly.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You get to know different parts of La for different things, and in your neck of the woods.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: We had done, you know, a fair number of gang searches, we had done narcotics searches, we had done.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know, national security espionage issues there as well, so your neck of the woods was interesting and varied and nothing like i've ever experienced I mean coming from you know my Hispanic culture and going into your Asian world very different very different.
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Hong Lieu: And that's why one reason I was i'm happy to have you on the show today because we've had these conversations in your office before.
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Hong Lieu: it's it's that it's the flavor is it is different because you know, like if you go, you know with.
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Hong Lieu: With with black gangs and South central they have a certain modus operandi the the Latin next to a little gangs and you still have a sort of certain most modus operandi.
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Hong Lieu: And the Asian games have their own modus operandi and it's all different, but I feel like the agent gangs are not.
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Hong Lieu: aren't that well represented in popular culture, because the style itself is so under the radar and the whole idea is to be like.
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Hong Lieu: Totally unseen to a certain extent, like like if you, if I break it down like a target or something you have like store associates, you have you know shift supervisor the managers.
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Hong Lieu: Like store associates in other gangs might be in the street.
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Hong Lieu: But the Asian gangsters the store associates are not in the street they're still behind a building there's still there's still like our facades and layers you have to break through.
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Hong Lieu: To get into that and it's something that has never really been kind of really it's not really out there now a lot of people still don't know a lot about all that happened or or the big wars that broke out between you know watching an Asian boys and me.
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Hong Lieu: Even naming.
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Hong Lieu: me even naming games, I know i'm like i'm nerve my hardest palpitating because anything out there, goes against the culture so like but, but those are just broad strokes, I can keep it with broad strokes, you know.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: So you know, and I, I totally agree with you, it is interesting that I think Hispanic and black kings you hear so much more about I mean and i've been on so many more arrests and raids for Spanish and black gains in you know southern California.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And there are a number of Asian gangs, you know and i'll have to say, those Asian games are pretty violent to.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And, especially in San Gabriel Valley, and you know orange county and no different areas.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I don't know why I mean.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know, is it do we go back to that stereotype of.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Of Oh, you know because you're Asian you're going to be you're going to be more under the radar because maybe you're you keep things closer to the best and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: you're more quiet about your activities, I don't know what the reason is, but you're right in that we hear way less about Asian games.
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Hong Lieu: And even in.
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Hong Lieu: Scope yeah.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: just watching and you know Asian boys and oh yeah you definitely you know San Francisco has I think a lot more notoriety for Asian gangs.
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Hong Lieu: Even in popular culture, you know you had you had boys to men men society, you had blood in blood out American be.
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Hong Lieu: You know the only Asian yanks move that i've ever is like branch Reno and that's got white savior problems because they are no a new agents are going to clint clint Eastwood to be like you'll save me from myself, you know so.
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Hong Lieu: But.
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Akil Hill: It was still good movie, though.
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Akil Hill: yeah I.
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Hong Lieu: love that film.
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Hong Lieu: yeah entrance of being you know for for Laotian representation, it was you know I mean i'm sure there's some issues with the portrayal because i'm not allowed to myself but.
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Hong Lieu: At the same time yep and again getting gained a reputation on screen was important, but but yeah it's just I think it's an infrastructure thing to in terms of.
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Hong Lieu: Their their end customers are always you know, like it's like more bulk like I don't know I don't know like I said i'm not going to get into too much nuance in a public record because i'm not trying to make myself a target because, like but.
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Akil Hill: yeah we need you, for the show.
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Hong Lieu: But.
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Hong Lieu: I will say like it's one of those things where I saw the whole thing growing up like as a kid.
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Hong Lieu: Like when I was like fourth or fifth grade I, the one thing I wanted to be more than anything, was a gang Member like I you know, like it's weird to say.
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Hong Lieu: But like I saw that whole infrastructure going up where like right like you have a group of kids you play with grown up.
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Hong Lieu: Around fifth grade sixth grade you know you when your friends has an older brother or cousin or this and that who's who's you know getting into gangs, you know and then and then all of a sudden.
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Hong Lieu: shows up in full on Nice clothes, you know, to have a nice car a couple years later, and as you get to a certain age you're like oh man that that's awesome that that's that suits me to a TEE.
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Hong Lieu: You know, and I in a lot of ways I lucked out because that's That was the path that was kind of set out before me, but circumstances me being who I am prevented me for doing like.
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Hong Lieu: The Asian games, they want access to nerd you know so, then I went to the car kids and the car cuz I was too poor to get a car so so the tuna kids didn't want me to get you know I want to be a breakdancer but i'm too fat to dance.
340
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So, like.
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Hong Lieu: there's a lot of things that prevented me from.
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Hong Lieu: Picking up like all I wanted to do is click up and there was no one that would really until I met the punk punk like will take whatever come on buddy.
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Hong Lieu: I lucked out because, in my mind what I wanted I wanted that Community I wanted that acceptance, I wanted someone to have my back if I was in trouble, because we were always in trouble, you know, like like.
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Hong Lieu: The trouble of rotate and having that safety blanket you know you so he thought it was at the time, so like yeah as a kid growing up, I mean I lucked out that's all I got to put it.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Well, no, you did, and I think that there's I think you hit on so many things that are the basic common threads for gang membership and for youth.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Of all nationalities all colors is.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Is you know there's that opportunity because people want to be accepted because they want family because they want their backs to be covered, sometimes they see the wealth that they can get through this activity and.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Without you know and and sometimes because you know kids are from immigrant immigrant families or they have parents that are working, you know, God forbid, two and three jobs they become they become vulnerable.
349
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Linda Esparza Dozer: They become yeah well two gangs swooping in and taking them, so you are lucky.
350
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You were really lucky that that didn't occur.
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Hong Lieu: And that's really why I bring it up, not to like be like Oh, this is this is more than that, or this is this versus that.
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Hong Lieu: it's a universal you know it's a universal whether you're in a big city, I mean, I know I talked to people at once, I started working here there folks.
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Hong Lieu: That were talking about you know Asian gang incidents up here in Santa Barbara so it's it's you know.
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Hong Lieu: Back in the 90s, I mean it's just it just it's a universal components universe component of growing up.
355
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Hong Lieu: Under certain socio economic conditions, I know, in certain silky socio economic situations how neighborhoods or how population to distributed amongst neighborhoods.
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Hong Lieu: I mean that that idea of Community building it's what we're doing here on the show to certain extent.
357
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Hong Lieu: Is that that that need to kind of belong to the Community to to have to have you know, to know that there's people that have your back or support you, I mean that's a universal component of everything.
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Akil Hill: Also, I think there's a piece to that that that needs, I think we can add in there, as well as.
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Akil Hill: You know when you're that age and there's nothing to do right, so, in other words if there's no programs where we're actively engaging our youth.
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Akil Hill: and keeping them occupied and and and good, then you know what they're going to be occupied in if it's if you don't have any alternative there and I just remember when I moved to Santa Barbara when I was.
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Akil Hill: Halfway through like I think eighth grade, and so, just like in a lot of places where you move when you're new to the.
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Akil Hill: Community you always meet like the bad kids first at least you know what I mean because they're they're just out there, you see them there in the classroom there you know I mean like so I remember, I remember going into high school.
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Akil Hill: You know, I was so I was hanging out with all those kids because those are the those are the first kids that I met and and there was a click of them and they all the relatively in the same part of town.
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Akil Hill: And then, all of a sudden, like, I remember like you know, I think it was like ninth grade like football practice, people are like.
365
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Akil Hill: You know, watch out for this game and then so basically that group of kids in eighth grade form the gang over the summer, you know.
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Akil Hill: And so I was like I never heard that game, but then, when I realized, who was all in it, I was like oh yeah those are the Those are my boys I first met when I.
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Akil Hill: moved here.
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Akil Hill: You know, but again, if you don't give people an outlet, and something that's constructive.
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Akil Hill: You know what they're gonna gravitate towards this is that's just what it is.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Completely that is definitely a key Oh, that is so important, and you know I love and I support the boys club, the girls club girls Inc in any programs that can give those outlets.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah so important now.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Is it, you know, is it enough absolutely not there's more to it but that's at least a good starting point.
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Hong Lieu: Absolutely yeah The next step is finding those programs that I can speak the same language, because there's a lot of gay keeping were like like you hear about a programmer like.
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Hong Lieu: that's not cool though you know it's not, this is not that so that that little twist, how do you make it, how do you make something cool that people wanted that that people people that would be drawn in the street life.
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Hong Lieu: want to do this, instead, because yeah so that's yeah it's there's no easy answer there's there's no there's no transfer that we we already would have done it, I mean short of sort of dropped like bags of money on the street or something.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Exactly.
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Hong Lieu: yeah so thank Thank you Linda for giving us a chance to kind of break that down a little bit on the show he had not I mean i'm not glamorizing any i'm not glorifying anything but.
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Hong Lieu: I just i'm just here to say that it is a universal component, and so it is something that we should continue to have conversations about and kind of really figure out well, I mean there's no solving it, but what more can we do you know that kind of thing.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I think you're right, I think that I think that there are universal, components and and basic you know causation factors, and I think.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah there's they're very difficult to solve, but at least you people can become aware of them and try to to solve them and then you must still look at.
381
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know, individuals and you must look at their their culture, and you know really gear things towards them to address, because people are individuals, as opposed to lumping everyone all together.
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Akil Hill: yeah yeah absolutely yeah.
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Hong Lieu: The effort continues and then hopefully we'll get there someday you know.
384
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Hong Lieu: Moving on to our to to good eating our food section of the show.
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Hong Lieu: I hope I hope you're going to do the cookies Linux I didn't want to book a spot.
386
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But.
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Hong Lieu: Chris any food.
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Hong Lieu: food.
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Hong Lieu: You know, eating or preparing or.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: OK OK, I gotta be honest here I love to eat, and I mean I love food and I love to bake Am I love comfort food I love like I love to make pan dishes like enchiladas and was anya meatloaf.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And things like that, and I was laughing I already told Hong akil but I was laughing so hard I had listened to you guys interview Casey.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Casey me laugh so hard.
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With.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: These people took out the fat they took.
395
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You know.
396
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It tastes good everything's healthy.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I mean, yes, all things in moderation, but oh my God.
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Akil Hill: Or maybe not.
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Akil Hill: i'm just gonna keep it real.
400
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But man yeah no I mean.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: i'm not a huge sushi fan I think that's probably too healthy.
402
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Linda Esparza Dozer: I totally you know I love Mexican and you guys had a great burrito like it johnny's on on the avenue in ventura.
403
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Akil Hill: know.
404
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Linda Esparza Dozer: You got to go to johnny's man johnny's roxette johnny's on the avenue and ventura okay.
405
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Great food, and it was our big joke when I was in the FBI was okay you got to be armed, though, because the hells angel clubhouse was down the road.
406
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Like yeah let's go get johnny's burritos and everybody will wait.
407
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Linda Esparza Dozer: We got a piece on.
408
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Linda Esparza Dozer: But, in all seriousness really excellent Mexican really authentic excellent haven't been there, a long time, so I hope it still is.
409
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Another favorite inventor would be.
410
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Linda Esparza Dozer: it's the taqueria number five in across from like chucky cheese and window oh my God, they have the.
411
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Oh.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Brito oh.
413
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Akil Hill: Okay i've been there i've eaten there.
414
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Linda Esparza Dozer: Oh good.
415
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Akil Hill: Oh yeah i've got their nachos nachos are really good.
416
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Akil Hill: yeah yeah yeah.
417
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Linda Esparza Dozer: And i'm a i'm a fan of lidos you know, on haley and Santa Barbara for good breakfast burrito.
418
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Akil Hill: Your authentic traditional August spots yeah you're not going you're not going anywhere like also rodeos.
419
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Akil Hill: goes.
420
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Akil Hill: yeah.
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Linda Esparza Dozer: It was a goddess knows.
422
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah leave those and elbow to.
423
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Akil Hill: elbow.
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Akil Hill: Good.
425
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah great great so i'll be sober you know well.
426
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Oh.
427
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Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah but no, I mean I have nothing against the other places they're.
428
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Linda Esparza Dozer: All in there too um I think my biggest problem is I love, I mean I as long knows I love to bake and I have a really killer like recipe for.
429
00:55:18.420 --> 00:55:37.170
Linda Esparza Dozer: milk chocolate chip cookies and I use the pig ghirardelli milk chocolate chips and keep them really soft and they are so good, but and I don't really like to eat them when I bake I don't care about, but other people's baked goods or like baked goods at reno's bakery.
430
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:38.610
Akil Hill: Oh yes, we.
431
00:55:38.730 --> 00:55:41.670
Linda Esparza Dozer: Talk about where know the song yeah.
432
00:55:41.790 --> 00:55:44.760
Linda Esparza Dozer: God is my favorite in the universe, so good.
433
00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:46.560
Hong Lieu: hasn't been a brioche yet.
434
00:55:47.190 --> 00:55:47.850
Hong Lieu: No.
435
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:53.490
Hong Lieu: yeah they're almost done is pretty good but I bring those 202 different sides of the same coin there they're a little.
436
00:55:53.610 --> 00:55:55.110
Hong Lieu: Different style but they're both pretty good.
437
00:55:55.620 --> 00:55:57.720
Linda Esparza Dozer: All right, where's brioche I love her and.
438
00:55:57.750 --> 00:56:05.430
Hong Lieu: there's one in montecito they have their industrial bakery the bakery is on de la vina where the our daily bread was for a little while and.
439
00:56:05.430 --> 00:56:06.150
Akil Hill: No yeah.
440
00:56:06.180 --> 00:56:09.150
Hong Lieu: yeah right there so that you can do pickups from there as well.
441
00:56:09.420 --> 00:56:10.740
Linda Esparza Dozer: Okay, if I check that out.
442
00:56:11.250 --> 00:56:12.840
Akil Hill: I have a funny story about this is.
443
00:56:14.340 --> 00:56:23.370
Akil Hill: Jamie Richardson who used to work in admissions and records was one thing I was going on the cafeteria because we used to have fresh baker songs in the cafeteria.
444
00:56:23.790 --> 00:56:24.450
Linda Esparza Dozer: that'd be deadly.
445
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:26.970
Hong Lieu: I used to become every morning, they would do.
446
00:56:27.150 --> 00:56:29.160
Akil Hill: Chocolate and all that right, and so.
447
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:35.790
Akil Hill: She she was a foodie herself and so she was giving me all these stipulations like look for the third one to the right and.
448
00:56:37.080 --> 00:56:44.700
Akil Hill: And stuff like that so i'm like so she I remember like it has to be hot, it has to be fresh, so I went down there.
449
00:56:44.910 --> 00:56:54.720
Akil Hill: and obviously they weren't hot or fresh there and i'm not saying they were made, the day before, but I just was like my this this doesn't seem like because it was early in the morning.
450
00:56:55.170 --> 00:57:06.870
Akil Hill: So i'm like it doesn't seem like this was made the day of so but anyways long story short, I zapped in the microwave for like 30 seconds that I brought it to her, and he gave it to her permission to record she was, like all that was the best guest ever.
451
00:57:07.980 --> 00:57:08.250
Linda Esparza Dozer: I was.
452
00:57:08.550 --> 00:57:12.210
Akil Hill: I was laughing so hard, I was like that microwave do does it every single time.
453
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:15.810
Linda Esparza Dozer: that's pretty funny oh my gosh.
454
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:28.440
Hong Lieu: yeah my my dad has a high bar for croissants because you know from from Vietnam, that the French influence is always there and reno's reno's does scratch the itch for him, although he he just as easy to grab that big ol pack of costco ones and hit him up in the toaster oven, but yeah.
455
00:57:28.680 --> 00:57:29.460
Hong Lieu: yeah doesn't bring.
456
00:57:30.690 --> 00:57:37.620
Linda Esparza Dozer: Those things up and they're so good yeah, what do you guys think have been yes, you like oh.
457
00:57:37.860 --> 00:57:39.090
Hong Lieu: I love babies.
458
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:41.640
Hong Lieu: But they don't they're not not many places serve them around.
459
00:57:41.670 --> 00:57:48.900
Linda Esparza Dozer: Know there's actually there's a place in ventura and I don't know the name of it and that has been used that are really good.
460
00:57:50.220 --> 00:57:53.790
Linda Esparza Dozer: And you can get like vineyards and bacon.
461
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:58.560
Linda Esparza Dozer: For breakfast and oh my gosh it's really, really good it's on i'm.
462
00:58:00.450 --> 00:58:01.380
Linda Esparza Dozer: not happy about it.
463
00:58:04.770 --> 00:58:10.350
Linda Esparza Dozer: it's not on me so it's on what's the other parallel to me and not Telegraph.
464
00:58:10.680 --> 00:58:12.060
Akil Hill: To others Thompson.
465
00:58:12.090 --> 00:58:12.630
Akil Hill: Well there's.
466
00:58:13.260 --> 00:58:14.700
Akil Hill: Some stuff that's not Thompson yes.
467
00:58:14.910 --> 00:58:16.170
Linda Esparza Dozer: it's not sometimes yeah.
468
00:58:16.200 --> 00:58:19.320
Akil Hill: yeah it's over in that kind of strip mall area right.
469
00:58:19.710 --> 00:58:21.900
Akil Hill: yeah yeah it's aware yeah i've seen that.
470
00:58:21.930 --> 00:58:22.560
Akil Hill: i've been having the.
471
00:58:23.730 --> 00:58:33.090
Akil Hill: I was watching a video on that so when there was a video called trendy eats or something like that, and they were they were actually in that spot yeah I haven't tried it, though, but yeah.
472
00:58:33.900 --> 00:58:40.020
Hong Lieu: I think hayden kitchen has come to an end, pretty good there but fried fried dough fried dough with powdered sugar and.
473
00:58:42.630 --> 00:58:43.680
Linda Esparza Dozer: you're right you're right.
474
00:58:45.060 --> 00:58:46.290
Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah kitchen kitchen is good.
475
00:58:48.120 --> 00:58:59.970
Linda Esparza Dozer: i'm trying to think where else in Santa Barbara I think hole in the wall places in SP I mean Santa Barbara has good restaurants, but some of the hole in the wall basis or are fun and they're yummy like willie's tacos that's.
476
00:59:01.560 --> 00:59:08.040
Hong Lieu: yep Louise Louise a hall of famer in terms of that hole in the wall field, now they got two locations there they're building an empire slowly.
477
00:59:08.160 --> 00:59:09.510
Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah they definitely are.
478
00:59:12.450 --> 00:59:13.170
Linda Esparza Dozer: Alright, so.
479
00:59:13.680 --> 00:59:14.430
Hong Lieu: Thank you, Linda.
480
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:17.640
Hong Lieu: You want me to go kill you on your.
481
00:59:17.640 --> 00:59:19.470
Akil Hill: Whatever it's i'm good whatever if you want to.
482
00:59:19.560 --> 00:59:21.030
Akil Hill: throw i'll throw last.
483
00:59:21.510 --> 00:59:24.510
Hong Lieu: All right, i'm i'm i'm talking to you need food for this episode.
484
00:59:25.410 --> 00:59:30.870
Hong Lieu: flavor of India has been a long time kind of institution Santa Barbara they recently changed ownership last year.
485
00:59:31.140 --> 00:59:37.200
Hong Lieu: So i've had to like kind of branch out to eat there all the time, like we literally once a week, we would go to CAFE and we would you know do this and that so.
486
00:59:37.620 --> 00:59:45.120
Hong Lieu: So they're here and they change ownership, you know kind of broken heart, a little bit, but the food is still good there but it gave me kind of wiggle room to kind of branch out try other places.
487
00:59:45.180 --> 00:59:51.360
Hong Lieu: Because I hadn't been going other and your shuts down so i've had a chance to taste taste them all and they're all you know they're all pretty good for different for different things.
488
00:59:51.990 --> 00:59:56.400
Hong Lieu: My new daily driver is up now on state street they do kind of a general a general.
489
00:59:56.850 --> 01:00:07.860
Hong Lieu: pretty good quality curries and all that stuff bbg like the if you're taking friends out to dinner for Indian I would go to bb D, because they haven't you know good wine list, I mean the music can be loud so like that, but the food is good, too, and the Spice levels there.
490
01:00:08.130 --> 01:00:08.670
Akil Hill: Was that.
491
01:00:09.030 --> 01:00:10.410
Hong Lieu: it's it's on Stage Three as well.
492
01:00:10.680 --> 01:00:27.330
Hong Lieu: Okay, like yeah and then there's a again on state street the Tibetan Nepal house it's not Indian proper it's Tibetan Nepalese but the there's enough kind of relations between the cuisines that if you kind of want a little slight change of pace that it will definitely hit the spot.
493
01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:30.090
Linda Esparza Dozer: you're gonna hate me I hate Curry.
494
01:00:31.980 --> 01:00:32.430
Hong Lieu: You know I.
495
01:00:32.550 --> 01:00:35.100
Hong Lieu: And I, for me, I don't I don't love.
496
01:00:35.160 --> 01:00:38.730
Hong Lieu: I don't love Curry itself, but I do love kind of like.
497
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:42.150
Linda Esparza Dozer: My husband loves it and it's always a no I don't want to go there.
498
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:43.110
Why.
499
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:55.950
Akil Hill: listeners can't see Linda because you know, obviously we're recording and we're on zoom but the the look that she gave right now what she says you're gonna hate me I hate Curry was was epic you guys you guys.
500
01:00:56.520 --> 01:00:57.030
Hong Lieu: are so.
501
01:00:57.120 --> 01:00:58.560
Akil Hill: It was so defying.
502
01:00:58.650 --> 01:00:59.580
Hong Lieu: The way said that.
503
01:01:00.030 --> 01:01:01.410
Linda Esparza Dozer: I had to be polite and listen.
504
01:01:01.410 --> 01:01:02.340
Linda Esparza Dozer: To talk about all the.
505
01:01:06.090 --> 01:01:15.540
Hong Lieu: I mean, but there's there's like you can get this stuff tandoor but yeah honestly if you don't if you don't like soupy brought likes to eat broccoli stuff and yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be a tough tough.
506
01:01:16.410 --> 01:01:26.610
Akil Hill: yeah i'm a fan of Indian I think that also too, though I mean I see why a lot of people, you know they're like stop my favorite because it's the state the smell definitely stays with you for a few days.
507
01:01:28.170 --> 01:01:28.470
Akil Hill: Just.
508
01:01:28.980 --> 01:01:30.360
Akil Hill: yeah yeah.
509
01:01:30.570 --> 01:01:32.010
Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah next day.
510
01:01:33.690 --> 01:01:36.420
Akil Hill: I like i'm definitely like i'm like a lamb vindaloo guy.
511
01:01:38.730 --> 01:01:51.480
Akil Hill: chicken tikka masala as good as well, those two are kind of like my go to but but yeah i'm a big fan my brother in law is half Indian and so his mother would cook and just some good stuff.
512
01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:57.720
Linda Esparza Dozer: I had Okay, so another side story that was really funny when.
513
01:01:58.830 --> 01:02:07.410
Linda Esparza Dozer: I was traveling and I don't remember if it was for work or not, but I was traveling into London and I remember, I went into London and.
514
01:02:07.890 --> 01:02:19.920
Linda Esparza Dozer: It was either my work partner or my husband wonder, it was a male because they went into the bathroom and they came out and they were like wow Curry flavored condoms in there, so.
515
01:02:21.090 --> 01:02:28.710
Linda Esparza Dozer: People talk about Indian I think of that experience of wow man Curry flavored condom is very interesting.
516
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:30.210
Hong Lieu: Only in London yeah.
517
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:31.380
yeah.
518
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:34.260
it's funny.
519
01:02:35.460 --> 01:02:36.210
Akil Hill: So you want to go.
520
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:41.190
Akil Hill: So i'm gonna go my choice for this week show is kind of in light of.
521
01:02:41.790 --> 01:02:56.400
Akil Hill: Persian New Year, that was, I think it was last week, or maybe the week before restaurant in thousand oaks Persian foods called siddharth that's the name of the restaurant and then i'm going to go with the chicken coop today, which is basically like ground chicken.
522
01:02:58.140 --> 01:03:03.600
Akil Hill: You know ground chicken and a whole bunch of different spices cooked on a kebab over cherry rice.
523
01:03:04.350 --> 01:03:08.190
Akil Hill: If you guys have never had cherry rice I would highly recommend.
524
01:03:10.230 --> 01:03:25.380
Akil Hill: Jerry rice from standoff in thousand oaks it's just so good, I can't even is a little sweetness but a little bit of tartness and it's just really amazing they actually deliver it's funny because I have picked up some food and I live in carb and so.
525
01:03:27.990 --> 01:03:34.140
Akil Hill: The guy was like yeah i've seen you in here a few times and I was like yeah it's the closest spot to get Persian food.
526
01:03:35.100 --> 01:03:51.600
Akil Hill: And so, he was like we deliver so that means like we delivered a Santa Barbara all the time, so I was like okay that's good to know I don't know what that I didn't ask him about the fee, but just fyi that's my choice and then everything else they make is really, really, really good so.
527
01:03:52.650 --> 01:03:55.140
Akil Hill: Happy New Year to all my fellow Persians.
528
01:03:56.340 --> 01:03:57.750
Akil Hill: And that's my choice.
529
01:03:58.530 --> 01:03:59.850
Hong Lieu: that's a great.
530
01:04:00.060 --> 01:04:10.800
Hong Lieu: tip right there because i'm tempted to get to do it for myself, I love food, you know grew up in La westward has a huge Persian community that whole area and so giving like tongue sandwiches coup de all the all.
531
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:13.650
Hong Lieu: The all the Nice, the food is so delicious.
532
01:04:14.070 --> 01:04:16.200
Hong Lieu: yeah he's good he's a staff RON yeah.
533
01:04:16.290 --> 01:04:27.270
Akil Hill: yeah that's what's in the kubi did the chicken coop I wasn't a factor I tried to be if I wasn't I was like it was pretty good wasn't bad, but the chicken really spoke to me, so there it is there.
534
01:04:27.450 --> 01:04:29.820
Linda Esparza Dozer: The rice and chicken together since w me.
535
01:04:30.150 --> 01:04:38.100
Akil Hill: Jerry rice it's I don't know if a lot of people, you know, like you know they don't really think of when you think of you know.
536
01:04:38.610 --> 01:04:52.830
Akil Hill: Food the Persian food, you know they probably is not honor the front, you know other mind but i'm telling you it's it's really simple but it's hard to do you know, like some of the simplest recipes are the hardest to get right, you know.
537
01:04:53.790 --> 01:04:58.080
Akil Hill: And they do a great job, but I fell in love with that Jerry rice when I think about it a lot.
538
01:04:59.460 --> 01:05:00.690
Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah yeah.
539
01:05:00.900 --> 01:05:03.450
Hong Lieu: and knowing they deliver that's that's awesome yeah cuz.
540
01:05:03.600 --> 01:05:05.460
Linda Esparza Dozer: In code that's like essential.
541
01:05:05.580 --> 01:05:06.180
Hong Lieu: And having that.
542
01:05:06.330 --> 01:05:18.000
Hong Lieu: source to get get other types of food up here because I get into a rut sometimes where I have the same routine you know certain restaurants, on this day and that day, so that little twisted shake things up as much appreciate it for sure yeah.
543
01:05:19.140 --> 01:05:19.800
Hong Lieu: Right.
544
01:05:20.100 --> 01:05:21.120
Hong Lieu: On the higher learning.
545
01:05:22.020 --> 01:05:26.430
Hong Lieu: Linda you want to want to kick us off again piece of culture book TV movie.
546
01:05:27.120 --> 01:05:29.160
Linda Esparza Dozer: Oh let's talk about let's talk about.
547
01:05:30.390 --> 01:05:34.350
Linda Esparza Dozer: Truth and watching during coven which would netflix.
548
01:05:35.850 --> 01:05:36.390
Linda Esparza Dozer: seriously.
549
01:05:37.050 --> 01:05:37.410
Linda Esparza Dozer: I mean.
550
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:40.470
Linda Esparza Dozer: I don't know the last time I was at a movie theater so.
551
01:05:41.730 --> 01:05:44.910
Linda Esparza Dozer: I feel like netflix has been.
552
01:05:46.020 --> 01:06:04.230
Linda Esparza Dozer: Probably mine and most people's go to and so it's been interesting watching binge watching and watching different mini series, and I have to say there's been a couple that I really, really enjoyed and and after I thought about it, I went wow they all have.
553
01:06:05.310 --> 01:06:09.210
Linda Esparza Dozer: Female you know heroines or star, so I found that really cool too.
554
01:06:10.410 --> 01:06:13.320
Linda Esparza Dozer: I really liked a miniseries called the queen's gambit.
555
01:06:14.220 --> 01:06:15.540
Hong Lieu: Oh yeah oh yeah.
556
01:06:15.540 --> 01:06:20.790
Linda Esparza Dozer: surprising to me, too, because I didn't really know what it was about when I launched into it i'm like wow, this is about.
557
01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:33.420
Linda Esparza Dozer: You know yeah she's a chess champion but wow I mean she had to deal with you know, being an orphan and and alcoholism and substance abuse and wow this is really interesting it was just really well done, I think.
558
01:06:34.770 --> 01:06:40.740
Linda Esparza Dozer: there's another one that's probably a lesser known one called Hannah and she is.
559
01:06:42.030 --> 01:06:48.060
Linda Esparza Dozer: A young woman raised by who, I think, is probably her father, who is some sort of.
560
01:06:49.770 --> 01:07:03.060
Linda Esparza Dozer: assassin, and he raises her out like in the woods, in the middle of I don't know what foreign country, and she is an assassin and it's actually really it sounds strange but super entertaining highly recommend it.
561
01:07:04.620 --> 01:07:16.950
Linda Esparza Dozer: So that's a good one, and finally, you know handmaid's tale handmaid's tale has been awesome and I know the book was written, you know, several years ago, but boy the netflix or I should say it's on hulu.
562
01:07:17.010 --> 01:07:17.400
Linda Esparza Dozer: So the.
563
01:07:17.700 --> 01:07:18.270
series.
564
01:07:19.350 --> 01:07:21.660
Linda Esparza Dozer: is just it's it's amazing.
565
01:07:21.930 --> 01:07:26.310
Akil Hill: Well, it sounds like you like period pieces you like time pieces like period pieces is that your genre.
566
01:07:28.470 --> 01:07:29.460
Linda Esparza Dozer: No, not so much.
567
01:07:31.380 --> 01:07:35.610
Linda Esparza Dozer: You guys will laugh it'll this will be a big reveal to everyone, I love zombie movies.
568
01:07:37.080 --> 01:07:37.860
Linda Esparza Dozer: I love.
569
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:41.040
Linda Esparza Dozer: I love walking dead and.
570
01:07:42.180 --> 01:07:43.650
Linda Esparza Dozer: Anything zombie related.
571
01:07:45.390 --> 01:07:46.170
Linda Esparza Dozer: I love.
572
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:56.760
Linda Esparza Dozer: I love crime thriller and there was a netflix series called Bosch love it love Bosch like i'm so into Bosch it's not even funny.
573
01:07:56.940 --> 01:07:59.820
Linda Esparza Dozer: And Bosch last their last series.
574
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:08.940
Linda Esparza Dozer: will be this coming year and I love FBI stuff you mean I love blacklist.
575
01:08:09.990 --> 01:08:14.970
Linda Esparza Dozer: I love jack Ryan CIA officer and all entertaining.
576
01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:16.830
Hong Lieu: yeah.
577
01:08:17.910 --> 01:08:22.920
Hong Lieu: I saw the hand and movie but I haven't seen the TV show so i'm kind of curious about the TV show now because it wasn't good.
578
01:08:23.430 --> 01:08:26.460
Linda Esparza Dozer: i'm pretty sure it's netflix you should look it was it was actually really good.
579
01:08:27.750 --> 01:08:29.820
Linda Esparza Dozer: So far, i'm waiting for the next season, I think.
580
01:08:30.660 --> 01:08:34.500
Hong Lieu: To record see how it would be good stretched out into a TV show, because the movie was pretty good.
581
01:08:34.830 --> 01:08:35.940
Linda Esparza Dozer: Okay okay.
582
01:08:37.860 --> 01:08:40.020
Linda Esparza Dozer: Look man, I want to hear from you guys what's your favorite.
583
01:08:40.080 --> 01:08:41.700
Akil Hill: movie, what do you got on.
584
01:08:41.820 --> 01:08:52.170
Hong Lieu: This this this episode i'm gonna go back to music, because I feel like I i've been i've been you know, been I gotta stay true to my roots, you know I haven't recommend any punk albums in a while.
585
01:08:52.470 --> 01:08:58.950
Hong Lieu: And so, this episode I got an album that came out last year, my band called teenage Halloween they're out of New Jersey.
586
01:08:59.460 --> 01:09:05.430
Hong Lieu: I think, maybe they're in Philadelphia New Jersey, but they do just like straight up kind of regular like no effect style skate punk punk.
587
01:09:05.910 --> 01:09:14.490
Hong Lieu: And then i'm just came out a couple weeks ago by a band called closer called within one stem and it's more of like a hardcore like post hardcore people called scream Oh, because you know, like it's like.
588
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:21.030
Hong Lieu: A lot of lyrics are screen, you know screamed out but but but scream it was kind of lay to what's called emo or emotional music.
589
01:09:21.270 --> 01:09:21.930
Hong Lieu: Is is more.
590
01:09:22.110 --> 01:09:29.520
Hong Lieu: This is more just screamed like the lyrics are more just about kind of like self discovery and anti fascism and stuff so it's not it's not really like romantic religious stuff so I.
591
01:09:30.450 --> 01:09:35.250
Hong Lieu: I don't love the screamer label here, but it hurts our screen sizes, so I understand you know.
592
01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:37.650
Linda Esparza Dozer: This is really interesting screen well.
593
01:09:37.980 --> 01:09:48.300
Hong Lieu: Like I like I said that the pumps, are the ones that, let me, and so, like, I have to stay true and get back to the culture, a little bit so i'm still trying to stay hip with the new releases, so these both these downscale the last couple years.
594
01:09:48.750 --> 01:09:58.860
Hong Lieu: And yeah i'll put notes and the links in the show notes teenage Halloween and screamer or screams from closer within yeah Nice.
595
01:09:58.950 --> 01:09:59.250
yeah.
596
01:10:01.050 --> 01:10:10.620
Akil Hill: So i'm gonna for my choice i'm gonna i'm gonna go book and i'm actually going to try to change it up i'm actually going to go cookbook I think it's the first time that.
597
01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:12.600
Akil Hill: Oh, I have.
598
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:13.590
thrown that out, but.
599
01:10:14.610 --> 01:10:18.420
Akil Hill: there's a book called a philistine it's a cookbook it.
600
01:10:20.310 --> 01:10:30.570
Akil Hill: centered or focuses on basically Middle Eastern dishes and so I know Robin is around the corner and so I just purchased this and so i'm trying to.
601
01:10:31.860 --> 01:10:34.260
Akil Hill: go through it and and.
602
01:10:35.310 --> 01:10:36.900
Akil Hill: see what I can make.
603
01:10:37.980 --> 01:10:38.910
Akil Hill: pretty soon here but.
604
01:10:40.080 --> 01:10:43.200
Akil Hill: The author is you'll put the links in the show notes right.
605
01:10:43.260 --> 01:10:54.780
Akil Hill: um but the fords done by ottolenghi who's This is like this professional master cookbook so he does afford in the book but it's kind of along the same line Middle Eastern cuisine.
606
01:10:55.980 --> 01:11:07.440
Akil Hill: You know just a lot of yogurt and and pomegranates and just all the stuff that's native to that region, and so it's a beautiful cookbook and.
607
01:11:08.010 --> 01:11:15.330
Akil Hill: One of my things I kind of got into over covert is you know books in general, but I started revisiting them more than what I usually.
608
01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:22.830
Akil Hill: Do because I have time on my hands, so I kind of went through a phase of getting different cookbooks and trying to try a.
609
01:11:23.550 --> 01:11:33.960
Akil Hill: new recipe once a week, so this is the new purchase that I got a philistine you could probably I got this one, I think Barnes and Barnes and Nobles and ventura which yes, there are bookstores.
610
01:11:35.100 --> 01:11:36.270
Akil Hill: still out there.
611
01:11:37.350 --> 01:11:54.180
Akil Hill: So it's definitely worth picking up and actually just looking at it it's like the the photos and and they talk about that that region and just the history and all that so super intrigued to kind of get him into it, but that's my choice of the week.
612
01:11:55.710 --> 01:12:07.500
Hong Lieu: So key a question for you, for folks for folks trying to get into like you know Mediterranean Middle Eastern cuisine is there kind of like a dish like you know when when you tell me to go to Thai restaurants, you know you check them with a pad Thai or you know.
613
01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:11.340
Hong Lieu: yeah Indian restaurants tikka masala or is there.
614
01:12:11.730 --> 01:12:14.850
Hong Lieu: Additional folks you look out for when they're trying to gauge kind of restaurant to go into the for for the.
615
01:12:14.850 --> 01:12:15.330
Hong Lieu: first time.
616
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:21.990
Akil Hill: I mean OK, so I would say, I would go with anything with the kebab is safe right because it's kind of familiar to what people.
617
01:12:22.950 --> 01:12:32.220
Akil Hill: You know, and in the West, we like what you know it's just me and spices and you know, so I any type of kebab I was in Turkey, maybe.
618
01:12:33.030 --> 01:12:44.880
Akil Hill: A couple years ago right before I mean maybe six months or so before but yeah and I just kept revisiting the kebab it's just so simple, but so tasty you know and and the spices.
619
01:12:45.360 --> 01:12:52.410
Akil Hill: Sometimes some places you'll go there'll be there'll be spicier than others, but anything with the kebab is is definitely.
620
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:56.640
Akil Hill: You can't go wrong, you know yeah.
621
01:12:56.700 --> 01:12:59.160
Hong Lieu: I know is that the CAFE you know the ground meat.
622
01:12:59.160 --> 01:13:00.690
Akil Hill: prep yeah yeah.
623
01:13:01.530 --> 01:13:13.830
Akil Hill: yeah that's the best man like you make it as huge tub and then you just you see people you know, put it in flatten it out, put it on the school skewers throw it on the me and.
624
01:13:14.310 --> 01:13:24.180
Akil Hill: it's kind of similar to what we were talking about with the current asr where people just stand by the standby the grill as soon as it's done you just eat it like.
625
01:13:25.260 --> 01:13:28.590
Akil Hill: You know, they just you know just eat it right off the fresh off the grill and.
626
01:13:29.700 --> 01:13:41.490
Akil Hill: Most people with the with the kufa that they would just kind of take it off the square with a piece of bread like a five by bread and just eat it just like that throw some tomatoes, if you like, or some onions in there.
627
01:13:41.700 --> 01:13:43.200
Akil Hill: it's super good evening.
628
01:13:43.590 --> 01:13:44.040
yeah.
629
01:13:45.390 --> 01:13:50.640
Linda Esparza Dozer: Before I forget I was just recommended a book by a good friend of mine.
630
01:13:51.960 --> 01:14:04.260
Linda Esparza Dozer: Who is the CEO out of Q ad and he's he's just a really, really interesting eclectic man and he said that a good read that we should get out there is the cast.
631
01:14:05.430 --> 01:14:06.240
Akil Hill: Oh eyes.
632
01:14:06.570 --> 01:14:11.520
Linda Esparza Dozer: are cast it's cast cast origins of our discontent, I think.
633
01:14:13.020 --> 01:14:14.670
Linda Esparza Dozer: I want to say it's Isabel wilkerson.
634
01:14:16.080 --> 01:14:16.830
Hong Lieu: Oh yeah.
635
01:14:17.070 --> 01:14:24.120
Linda Esparza Dozer: it's it's about racism yeah because it's fantastic though he said that it's absolutely fantastic he's leading.
636
01:14:25.290 --> 01:14:32.610
Linda Esparza Dozer: A group of fortune 500 CEOs and he selected this book to bring for their discussion, which I thought was good.
637
01:14:33.630 --> 01:14:37.620
Hong Lieu: Any other caste system, you know, has rooted in southern Asia and things of that.
638
01:14:37.830 --> 01:14:42.840
Hong Lieu: yeah yeah and and it is one of those things where people forget that the.
639
01:14:43.410 --> 01:14:57.510
Hong Lieu: melanin melanin content that people skin matters, if the you know the universe that were that that factors in you know, like even even even an Asian communities, you know, like like like when they do like skin bleaching and stuff like that look fair skin and stuff I mean it's just the.
640
01:14:57.870 --> 01:14:58.260
Hong Lieu: kind of.
641
01:14:58.350 --> 01:15:04.980
Hong Lieu: These kind of structural setups where people are putting into categories when, at the end of the day, we're trying to tell people that.
642
01:15:05.310 --> 01:15:16.080
Hong Lieu: We are all created equal and you know, we are all individuals that are equal capability, but then you have these historical systems that go back thousands thousands of years it's yeah it's.
643
01:15:16.830 --> 01:15:24.750
Akil Hill: there's a really good movie that since we're talking about cash and and in India there's a movie on netflix it's called white tiger.
644
01:15:25.740 --> 01:15:27.300
Akil Hill: That kind of speaks to that that's.
645
01:15:27.330 --> 01:15:42.210
Akil Hill: really worth he shows the the life if you're not in the right spots in that regard, in terms of the caste system it's a really good really good movie, so I would recommend that to it's called what white tiger.
646
01:15:43.740 --> 01:15:48.360
Hong Lieu: yeah when you talk about and we talked about folks that you know even a lot of folks running the restaurants out here.
647
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:55.500
Hong Lieu: You know you find out that a lot of reasons they came here was for better opportunities for the kids and you're like well you know it seems seems pretty good back they're like well.
648
01:15:55.830 --> 01:16:03.270
Hong Lieu: We were of this cast, so we had you know we are opportunities were limited so we came here because we wanted to give our children a blank slate kind of an opportunity to be.
649
01:16:03.900 --> 01:16:09.780
Hong Lieu: better than what they were told they were when they were in India so so hearing stories like that, when you talk to people it's just like yeah but.
650
01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:11.340
yeah.
651
01:16:12.600 --> 01:16:18.990
Akil Hill: it's kind of interesting i'm sitting here thinking a little bit you know, we have the three of us on here and, obviously, all of us are from different.
652
01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:25.650
Akil Hill: cultural and ethnic backgrounds, but so interesting, just to be able to be thankful and present that.
653
01:16:26.250 --> 01:16:33.180
Akil Hill: You know, we can we're in a space or in a country America and then we're talking about other cultures.
654
01:16:34.050 --> 01:16:47.400
Akil Hill: That are even our own that have affected our lives are impacted our lives or things that we love in our lives it's pretty special I mean, sometimes we don't we don't stop and really to reflect on that that we're giving places we're talking about Persian food we're talking about.
655
01:16:48.450 --> 01:16:56.310
Akil Hill: Indian food we're talking about, like all these different things that kind of ties together this in this country it's just.
656
01:16:56.910 --> 01:17:06.180
Akil Hill: You know I know that there's a we have a daunting task in terms of where we want to be at but also we got to be mindful about the similarities and the benefits of.
657
01:17:06.600 --> 01:17:12.540
Akil Hill: of his country and just listening to Linda and you may be thinking about that, right now, where Mike we're all talking about.
658
01:17:13.050 --> 01:17:28.560
Akil Hill: kebab and burritos aventura and just like this is what the show is what's really be about is just the how diverse and thankful that the blessing is in is in the diversity, you know.
659
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:30.960
Linda Esparza Dozer: And I was thinking that too.
660
01:17:31.080 --> 01:17:33.330
Linda Esparza Dozer: I think that's pretty cool cool yeah.
661
01:17:33.480 --> 01:17:38.700
Hong Lieu: yeah the true voices and the universality is we found universal components of all of our country that kind of are similar and so.
662
01:17:38.910 --> 01:17:45.480
Hong Lieu: So there's a lot to speak about the individual experience and how everyone's you know everyone's experience is important and valuable, but also to.
663
01:17:45.990 --> 01:17:57.480
Hong Lieu: living in that melting pot and seeing how kind of a lot of the lot of our core backbone pieces are similar and we have a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of room to build bridges to link and unify.
664
01:17:58.140 --> 01:18:02.790
Hong Lieu: wow while we, while we elevate that individual experience and struggles that we all go through as well, so yeah.
665
01:18:03.450 --> 01:18:06.270
Linda Esparza Dozer: yeah listen learn appreciate yeah.
666
01:18:06.870 --> 01:18:07.170
Akil Hill: yeah.
667
01:18:07.230 --> 01:18:14.580
Hong Lieu: And that's the key listening and learning and appreciating I mean it's easy to do those things to say you're going to do those things, but to actually have a process.
668
01:18:14.850 --> 01:18:25.110
Hong Lieu: and feel that kind of enhancement of self that comes the true knowledge of self that comes from learning more about others is yeah i'm not not everyone's open to that, like a lot of you see a lot of discourse and conversation.
669
01:18:25.500 --> 01:18:31.320
Hong Lieu: Where you're quick to shut something off of it doesn't trigger that like acceptance point in your own brain like yes, I.
670
01:18:31.320 --> 01:18:39.480
Hong Lieu: yeah but, but until you listen, learn and accept and incorporate and enhance your own worldview based on that, I mean that's that's true gross you know so.
671
01:18:40.260 --> 01:18:42.240
Linda Esparza Dozer: I listen to your love of Curry.
672
01:18:44.400 --> 01:18:44.820
Hong Lieu: And that's.
673
01:18:45.120 --> 01:18:46.470
Hong Lieu: And that's Okay, you know, like.
674
01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:48.090
Hong Lieu: it's, not to say that we're all trying to get.
675
01:18:48.750 --> 01:18:49.950
Hong Lieu: The same place in our brain.
676
01:18:50.160 --> 01:18:51.540
Hong Lieu: we're trying to get to that same level of.
677
01:18:51.540 --> 01:18:53.250
Linda Esparza Dozer: Awareness We appreciate that.
678
01:18:55.170 --> 01:18:56.340
Hong Lieu: I was still eating nothing.
679
01:18:56.340 --> 01:18:57.570
Hong Lieu: cookies after this episode is.
680
01:18:59.190 --> 01:19:10.320
Hong Lieu: That we all, we all agree, as long as we're aware that it's okay to go the other way, too, I mean there's certain conversations there there's not much wiggle room and certain conversations, but with nothing cookies and you know Curry and.
681
01:19:11.010 --> 01:19:12.360
Linda Esparza Dozer: cookies for some people.
682
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:15.540
Akil Hill: No it's not.
683
01:19:16.950 --> 01:19:17.310
Akil Hill: Linda.
684
01:19:17.370 --> 01:19:19.920
Akil Hill: Linda let's just tell these people out here let's call it what it is.
685
01:19:24.060 --> 01:19:25.260
Akil Hill: don't put them in there it's.
686
01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:32.940
Akil Hill: I don't want anything country when something softly big sorry I just sorry man I keep it real with.
687
01:19:34.530 --> 01:19:35.040
Hong Lieu: One day.
688
01:19:35.130 --> 01:19:35.850
Hong Lieu: One day we'll we'll.
689
01:19:37.740 --> 01:19:39.330
Hong Lieu: get to that place, but in the meantime.
690
01:19:39.690 --> 01:19:40.440
Hong Lieu: Thank you so much.
691
01:19:41.010 --> 01:19:44.040
Linda Esparza Dozer: guys Thank you so much for letting me jabber on and on and.
692
01:19:44.040 --> 01:19:45.360
Akil Hill: Always such a pleasure Linda.
693
01:19:45.450 --> 01:19:48.000
Linda Esparza Dozer: A little bit about title nine because every little bit helps.
694
01:19:48.060 --> 01:19:55.800
Hong Lieu: Yes, it's a true honor and a privilege and, if you take anything away from the show today, instead, if you if you have any questions or need any more information.
695
01:19:56.310 --> 01:20:10.350
Hong Lieu: Linda or Adrian Betty as well, but Linda is probably your main contact and there should be no no she's reaching out she's a great person she's she will listen and she she cares about what you have to say, you know she's she's here for you easy for everyone that needs her so.
696
01:20:10.860 --> 01:20:12.210
Linda Esparza Dozer: i'll give you cookies without nuts.
697
01:20:12.510 --> 01:20:14.160
Hong Lieu: Okay, yes, yes.
698
01:20:14.250 --> 01:20:19.470
Hong Lieu: yeah don't don't don't make promises you can't keep your head like a line out the door once wants to someone takes that first byte.
699
01:20:20.610 --> 01:20:24.720
Linda Esparza Dozer: code that I used to have addition candy for everyone, but now I can't have candy you.
700
01:20:26.580 --> 01:20:27.030
Linda Esparza Dozer: Have like.
701
01:20:27.090 --> 01:20:29.280
Linda Esparza Dozer: You know hand sanitizer next to it.
702
01:20:30.420 --> 01:20:33.330
Hong Lieu: we'll get there, we got to get you once we get to that herd immunity to couple years old.
703
01:20:35.040 --> 01:20:35.730
Akil Hill: All right, yes.
704
01:20:35.790 --> 01:20:36.870
Hong Lieu: So before we go and.
705
01:20:36.960 --> 01:20:37.890
Linda Esparza Dozer: have a wonderful day.
706
01:20:38.190 --> 01:20:41.430
Hong Lieu: Any last words about title nine you want sherilyn during that, for me, before we let you go.
707
01:20:42.750 --> 01:20:43.440
Linda Esparza Dozer: um.
708
01:20:46.080 --> 01:20:55.800
Linda Esparza Dozer: I would say, the most important thing about timeline is that if you experience anything that is related to sexual harassment or sexual assault.
709
01:20:57.060 --> 01:21:03.750
Linda Esparza Dozer: Please report it, it does not mean that you have to go forward with a formal investigation, but at least learn what your rights and resources are.
710
01:21:05.130 --> 01:21:05.700
Akil Hill: Also, any.
711
01:21:05.970 --> 01:21:07.170
Hong Lieu: Thank you, Linda okay.
712
01:21:07.440 --> 01:21:07.710
Linda Esparza Dozer: All right.
713
01:21:07.740 --> 01:21:08.070
Hong Lieu: All right.
714
01:21:08.220 --> 01:21:08.730
Hong Lieu: Thank you.
715
01:21:09.780 --> 01:21:10.770
Hong Lieu: until next time.
716
01:21:10.860 --> 01:21:11.250
Hong Lieu: This will.
717
01:21:12.420 --> 01:21:13.110
Hong Lieu: Take care.