Akil and Hong welcome superintendent/president Dr. Kindred Murillo to the show to talk about SBCC, COVID vaccine requirement planning, and why she's a good fit for the position. From there, the three discuss mole, tacos, and some essential reading and television watching: Ibram X Kendi, Michael Eric Dyson, James Baldwin, Laura Gomez, Luis Rodriguez, The Wonder Years Reboot, and Reservation Dogs all get some love. See show notes for full details!
Mentioned in this episode:
SBCC Vaccine Requirement - https://www.sbcc.edu/newsandevents/covid-19/vaccine-requirement-info/index.php
SBCC President’s Office - https://www.sbcc.edu/presidentsoffice/
Critical Mass Theory - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass_(sociodynamics)
Action Research - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_research
Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin - https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Team-of-Rivals/Doris-Kearns-Goodwin/9780743270755
California Burrito - https://www.lajolla.com/article/california-burrito/
Green Chile Stuffed Sopapilla - https://www.newmexicanfoodie.com/stuffed-sopapillas-filled-with-carne-adovada/
Mole - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(sauce)
Taqueria Cuernavaca - https://www.cuernavaca-taqueria.com/
Pho - https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-how-to-make-traditional-vietnamese-pho
Sukiyaki - https://www.seriouseats.com/traditional-sukiyaki-japanese-hot-pot-recipe
New Mexico State University Chili Pepper Institute - https://cpi.nmsu.edu/
Corazon Cocina - https://corazoncocinasb.com/
El Zarape - https://www.elzarapesantabarbara.com/
Super Cuca’s - https://www.supercucasrestaurant.com/
Gloria’s Gourmet Kitchen - https://www.yelp.com/biz/glorias-gourmet-kitchen-santa-barbara-2
Taqueria Mena - https://www.instagram.com/taqueriamena/?hl=en
Don Paco Mexican Food - https://www.facebook.com/DonPacoMexicanFood/
Naya’s Tacos - https://www.facebook.com/people/Nayas-Tacos/100067572190712/
Bless Me, Ultima by Rodolfo Anaya - https://www.grandcentralpublishing.com/titles/rudolfo-anaya/bless-me-ultima/9780446600255/
Citizen, by Claudia Rankine - https://www.graywolfpress.org/books/citizen
James Baldwin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Baldwin#Works
Francisco Bustos Drum Circle - https://www.theswcsun.com/professor-follows-the-beat-of-his-own-drum/
How to Be an Antiracist, by Ibram X. Kendi - https://www.ibramxkendi.com/how-to-be-an-antiracist
I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness, by Austin Channing Brown - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/555849/im-still-here-by-austin-channing-brown/
Long Time Coming, by Michael Eric Dyson - https://read.macmillan.com/lp/long-time-coming/
Inventing Latinos: A Story of Racism in America by Laura E. Gomez - https://thenewpress.com/books/inventing-latinos
The Wonder Years (2021) - https://abc.com/shows/the-wonder-years
Tears We Cannot Stop: A Sermon to White America, by Michael Eric Dyson - https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250135995
Reservation Dogs - https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/reservation-dogs
Always Running, by Luis Rodriguez - https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Always-Running/Luis-J-Rodriguez/9780743276917
In memory of Janet Hose -
Captions provided by Zoom
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Hong Lieu: Hello, and welcome to another episode of SBCC Vaquero Voices - a podcast highlighting the voices that comprise our campus culture and how we're all working together to serve our students and the community at large. As usual, I'm joined by co-host Akil Hill.
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Akil Hill: What's good, everybody?
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Hong Lieu: And today, we are honored to welcome superintendent/president, Dr Kindred Murillo to the show.
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Hong Lieu: Welcome, Dr Murillo.
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Akil Hill: Welcome, Dr Murillo.
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Kindred Murillo: Thank you i'm so excited this is so fun to be here, the first like few weeks i'm at city college.
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Hong Lieu: yeah congratulations, not only on on becoming our superintendent President but also we are now as of this recording and when this episode is posted we are past our October 1.
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Hong Lieu: You know vaccine requirement, you know deadline, so we are fully in effect, you know we tried to get the word out we've done the best because and.
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Hong Lieu: I know that you've been an integral part of that Dr Murillo least, at least for the last mile or wherever whenever you, you know became part of the process.
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Hong Lieu: But if you could run through kind of a little bit you know, in terms of the overall process or how you feel things are playing out or how you feel about about how things have gone or just just anything you want to speak on the whole process so far.
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Kindred Murillo: so well, I came in, I think it seems like four weeks ago so that's about right for timing.
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Kindred Murillo: We were really heavily into looking at the implementation and one of the things that we did immediately.
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Kindred Murillo: After my arrival was We broke up some of the duties, because a lot of the duties were falling heavily on Vice President loss and they really belonged in different areas, so we moved the things that belonged under.
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Kindred Murillo: Our executive director by tea with them over there you're responsible you're accountable, we moved communications over to communications and said here you're accountable for these.
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Kindred Murillo: and Dr Scott picked up her share of the things that deal with instruction in student affairs, so I think that really helped move move us along, so that we were more organized as a team and what i've seen is like the last.
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Kindred Murillo: couple of weeks.
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Kindred Murillo: they've just been rolling I can't tell you how happy I am with.
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Kindred Murillo: How hard everybody's worked tried to ramp up communications, because when I first came in, there was a lot of concerns around vaccinations and the contact Tracy.
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Kindred Murillo: And you know when you think about the four pillars I call the four pillars of.
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Kindred Murillo: really being effective at controlling the transmission of covert you're dealing with mass you're dealing with vaccines you're dealing with air filtration and contact racing.
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Kindred Murillo: And those are the things you have to really focus on, you can see Los Angeles county he's done an amazing job, the last three weeks right so.
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Kindred Murillo: it's important so happy the partners that we have in the constituency leaders, the academic senate faculty association CSC CA are advancing leadership association.
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Kindred Murillo: And our president's Council and our adjuncts all have worked hard to work together to make sure we're sitting we're centered on students.
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Akil Hill: teamwork makes the dream work.
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Hong Lieu: And it's great to hear, because you know, the whole thing with cover the whole time last year and a half, or so it really is an unprecedented kind of situation.
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Hong Lieu: So there's not really much you can lean on in terms of kind of.
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Hong Lieu: How you formulate your response, but you nailed it on the head in terms of we have had enough time to figure out some things and those four pillars you highlight in terms of Max masks vaccines.
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Hong Lieu: testing and contact racing all those things, I mean those are proven to be effective, but the problem is there.
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Hong Lieu: it's a heavy lift you know it's it's a lot to get going on the wrapping up testing and contact racing.
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Hong Lieu: You know, in a small area is one thing, but it does not scale well so it's really hard, not only to get these things done.
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Hong Lieu: But to convince people that when you're doing it you're doing it effectively, because there is no precedent.
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Hong Lieu: And because they're there the metrics in terms of what defines success are really hard to kind of kind of hit on the head so so you really just kind of have to.
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Hong Lieu: kind of get in there and try it and and have people trust, so you coming on to something new and trying to like just just trust me, so to speak, in an unprecedented situation like I do kind of I appreciate all the work you put in and I, but I don't envy your situation.
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Kindred Murillo: When you treat it here's a here's a management lesson for both of you um when you have when you have something like this unprecedented ramps up.
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Kindred Murillo: You operate like an emergency operation Center so what I what I did the minute coven looked really rough when I was at my prior college.
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Kindred Murillo: I called an emergency operations Center and we ran out all the way through till I retired.
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Kindred Murillo: And that's how I treated it we were in a team we're figuring out what the situation is and we're applying we're dividing up everything we do and we move forward so just a heads up, for you know dealing with those kinds of things like active shooters.
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Kindred Murillo: You know the anything that's unusual that happens at a college you just emergency operations Center.
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Hong Lieu: And, and you also do another another thing you did well as kind of delegate things out and kind of spread the wealth, so to speak, so didn't all follow one person because that's the number one.
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Hong Lieu: thing leads to you know burnout etc, etc spreading the wealth in that respect, was a good move as well, so thank you for that.
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Akil Hill: I can ask, I can also see like the trickle down effects of that because I mean, I will say you know the communication has been great.
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Akil Hill: And the word is definitely has gotten out and even the days that were open, I think that the procedures around opening have have been great you know and so.
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Akil Hill: You know Hats off to you, for you know grabbing taking the horse by the ring and then also.
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Akil Hill: Everyone that's in President Calvin that that dares to to you know make our campus safe again and get back to some type of normalcy so we got to give a shout out to president's cabinet you guys, for your hard work as well, so we thank you for that.
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Kindred Murillo: Well, thank you and I appreciate all the support that everybody's giving so Okay, so any now what's next.
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Hong Lieu: yeah I mean it's one of those things were planning in terms of these kinds of plans you plan for the like.
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Hong Lieu: You plan for the worst and then you anticipate the best and everything ends up somewhere in the middle, but you know and something i'm President like over to you just have to kind of keep kind of move into target around but yeah we'll see how it goes yes.
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Hong Lieu: So, in terms of I guess the day to day of a superintendent President outside of code yeah you know you're new to the job here, I guess, so to speak, but you've.
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Hong Lieu: done it in previous places what or is there a way to encapsulate kind of the duties of a superintendent President, or is it really just everything under the sun, as it comes to you, you know, day in and day out just checking emails and kind of rolling with going with the flow, so to speak.
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Kindred Murillo: You know I see my job as a superintendent President as.
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Kindred Murillo: it's developing the people I work with to take my job, so my my job is to basically replace myself, and so, then that means that the VP and people that report directly to me their job is to replace themselves so that we're developing our leadership.
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Kindred Murillo: One of the most critical components of being.
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Kindred Murillo: A leader is making sure that you're developing capability and that you're delegating.
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Kindred Murillo: What needs to be delegated to the people to run it so when things are offering really well in an organization.
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Kindred Murillo: To DPS or basically run doing the operations they're running the day to day, these things are moving on and you really don't have to have the superintendent President as involved.
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Kindred Murillo: In the processes when you have a bunch of new people in jobs, then as a superintendent President, your job is to make sure that you help them be successful.
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Kindred Murillo: That is my role is to help people be successful, the other piece that I see is so important from my my vantage point is to always keep the College focused on students.
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Kindred Murillo: And that we're always student centric and we're always equity focused so everything I do kind of lends itself toward that direction, that also means that I have to help create a culture.
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Kindred Murillo: That is diverse equitable and inclusive.
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Kindred Murillo: In Community colleges, we are the most diverse of all higher education right, so if we're going to be effective and we're going to close equity gaps that we have to have that culture.
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Kindred Murillo: That creates that environment for our students to learn, and in order to do that, we have to make sure employees thrive.
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Kindred Murillo: If our employees thrive right then.
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Kindred Murillo: It comes together with our students being taken care of.
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Kindred Murillo: And I think that's that's the role of a superintendent President in so many ways is keeping everybody's eye on the vision so like how i'm going to do that, this year is we're going to engage in strategic planning.
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Kindred Murillo: we're going to make diversity equity inclusion front and Center in my goals of we've gotta move strategically not piecemeal strategically through.
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Kindred Murillo: You know, policies and procedures updating our hiring practices to screen people in rather than splitting them out i'm making sure that we are financially sustainable.
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Kindred Murillo: that's another piece that's critical in all of this, so I you know and that might include a general obligation bond, but my role V to help assess whether that's even feasible.
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Kindred Murillo: or not, and if it is then we're going to have to prepare for that, so I see my role is being those pieces I also and when I interview with the board I I told them this and I, and I tell the College this to my job is to be a bridge between the Board and the College so there's trust.
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Kindred Murillo: And and that's important.
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Kindred Murillo: Absolutely now you've got to feel like the people that are making policy procedure.
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Kindred Murillo: You can trust them and they also need to feel like they can trust the employees of the College to take care of the students and the Community because remember the Board is the Community voice so that's the other piece about it so that's that i'm kind of what they call a bridge.
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Kindred Murillo: That.
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Hong Lieu: You don't understand you know I don't know if you realize how refreshing that answer is because it.
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Hong Lieu: Not only implies, you know that we're emphasizing diversity equity inclusion, but it also.
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Hong Lieu: I see planning behind that answer, because you know the last 18 months we haven't been able to plan anything has been kind of seat of our pants take things as they come see how things go.
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Hong Lieu: To actually hear like there's there's pieces that are kind of moving into place and they're allowed to move over time.
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Hong Lieu: And, and the second part that really kind of kind of brings a smile to my face is the fact that you emphasize.
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Hong Lieu: Bringing people from within to kind of quote unquote take over your job in terms of that internal promotion is something that I feel like not not not necessarily my SPC see on top of other places i've worked at.
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Hong Lieu: it's easy a lot of times to have like someone come in interview really strongly from outside.
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Hong Lieu: You know and it's a different context, and you plug them in and it's not a great fit as you thought it would be.
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Hong Lieu: But they're answered was so good in the interview that you know it kind of suede a little bit versus some of the internal candidates, where you had enough time to see all their like kind of.
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Hong Lieu: Positive the negative or what they are and and it almost hurts them, sometimes in kind of hiring situations where internal candidates are hurt from from so much such familiar ization so so hearing those pieces in your answer, I mean just yeah, thank you for that.
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Kindred Murillo: You know the best to.
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Kindred Murillo: me the best organizations are the one way you promote internally and you also bring people from the outside, who bring in expertise, so when you mix the two you've got historical strength and you have new ideas and innovation right right.
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Akil Hill: I used to manage that so interesting because I used to manage our nordstrom and that was a big drive in nordstrom was really trying to cultivate.
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Akil Hill: Your your staff or your from within, so that way.
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Akil Hill: people understand the culture of the place of where they work and then also it gives people the the drives is to kind of see themselves.
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Akil Hill: In other positions when you know that the institution is hiring from within you're actually watching people get promoted and you're like okay now there's maybe there's room for me somewhere else other than just just this position that i'm in so it does.
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Akil Hill: It my heart's kind of dancing a little bit because it's so refreshing to hear that, because you know i'm a believer that there's you know amazing.
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Akil Hill: amazing talent at Santa Barbara city college, a lot of.
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Akil Hill: Great people with good hearts and sound intellect so i'm excited just just to hear that.
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Hong Lieu: yeah when I was in game design, it was it was it was always people coming in, because game design was a new major at the time when I was there, so folks are always coming in.
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Hong Lieu: In interviews I just got my game design degree, let me come in and they would bring them in at higher level, like supervisory producer positions.
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Hong Lieu: And the folks that had been there for years actually doing that work in the job, where we're we're hurting were hurt you know from the from the influx of seeing that mix of the two.
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Hong Lieu: I definitely That was the first time I really got hit with the idea of institutional knowledge as this like foundational kind of kind of purpose, it really is important.
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Hong Lieu: And, and that balance that you speak about really is kind of that's the ultimate goal to find that good balance of institution knowledge.
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Hong Lieu: mix with those fresh ideas and folks that are actually coming with innovative mindsets to kind of do some things you know and apply apply that knowledge, you know that those kind of outside that outsider experience kind of brings.
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Kindred Murillo: You know, and I, and I don't want to make it sound like people inside don't have the innovation either yeah I want you know part of the whole idea of belt building capacity.
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Kindred Murillo: With your employees is making sure that the employees are exposed to outside concepts and design so what's going on, I particularly love.
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Kindred Murillo: I think I sent out a note this week, then had Dr Alex Solano, who is a friend of mine who i've worked with deeply and he goes by continuous learner and so.
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Kindred Murillo: it's about keeping people in that mode of learning staying fram sean's on things and getting develops so that's something we want that's part of the strategy with the diversity equity inclusion you can't train people a couple of times and go Oh, we are now woke right.
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Akil Hill: yeah sure.
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Kindred Murillo: it's a process yeah and people have to go and the work has to be done, internally, and you know it takes a lot of professional development takes a lot of reflection.
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Kindred Murillo: And we have to really strategically plan how we help develop people so that they can reflect internally about their commitment to diversity equity and inclusion.
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Hong Lieu: i'm i'm still skeptical that it can be trained at all, but.
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Hong Lieu: I am unsure I am i'm still unsure but I mean because the trainings are always good and the knowledge is always good.
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Hong Lieu: But do you have to have kind of a piece of your heart already open right, I mean there has to be that element of it that is receptive.
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Hong Lieu: To take in that information and and and that's the piece that I feel like is difficult to train, you know I don't know how to open one's heart to took to that cut taking in and just accepting some of these things is fact so that but yeah.
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Akil Hill: Well i'm.
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Kindred Murillo: gonna have the 20% oh sorry kill.
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Kindred Murillo: ya know.
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Akil Hill: I, I think, like, I feel I hear what you're saying on a call and also before we can get to the hearts, we have to get to the environment right, and so I think.
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Akil Hill: a remedy, and that is creating space where people feel like they belong, and even though they may have difference of ideas and so.
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Akil Hill: that's how you you kind of win people over as you make them feel wanted in a welcome first and then you know that's when the the.
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Akil Hill: The hopefully the light or the opening occurs, you know, but if you're making people go to places that aren't welcoming and that aren't inviting.
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Akil Hill: yeah of course they're not going to want to change because they don't feel valued or welcome in that space, because you know they they may have a different idea or they may have grown up in an environment that fosters certain type of beliefs, that are problematic.
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Kindred Murillo: And that's the pieces, I think that are so hard in this work, and so the training is a component of it and leadership, commitment is a huge piece of it because.
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Kindred Murillo: When you make when you really start moving in environment you've heard the theory of critical mass right.
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Kindred Murillo: Where you move, you know you have your skeptics that are never ever going to change, you can just forget it it's not going to happen.
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Kindred Murillo: But you've got this group of people that sort of live in the middle you're going to have your fruit, you know your champions.
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Kindred Murillo: Now, and they're and they're going to keep whining that champion group that helps start picking up some of the people that are in the middle, they start going oh wait a minute.
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Kindred Murillo: Maybe I need to learn more about this, I mean i've seen it in action, a couple of times now I use actually research.
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Kindred Murillo: So that's my change model that I like I diagnose basically say okay here's where we are got to understand where you're at Okay, this is where we want to be now what interventions we're going to put in place to get there and you're right on it's about.
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Kindred Murillo: it's really about planning and planning it out and being very intentional about what you do so you'll never open some people's hearts you'll never get them to see, and the other pieces if you if you create that cultural sort of feeling around to.
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Kindred Murillo: Even if people don't buy into it, at least their behaviors are pretty Okay, because they realize they're not going to gain any traction in this environment.
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Hong Lieu: yeah yeah that critical mass does at least allow them to even if they're not willing open their hearts at least they're willing to keep their mouths closed about some things as well, so.
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Hong Lieu: So it does pay off in some ways.
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Hong Lieu: You know so.
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Akil Hill: yeah yeah.
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Hong Lieu: Alright, so segue a little bit from there, in terms of what brought you to SPC we you know, in terms of your previous experiences are growing up or things of that sort of what kind of set you on the path that led you here today, you know.
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Akil Hill: You can be completely honest to if you just say, if you just want to say the ocean.
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Hong Lieu: that's completely under so whether whether it's good food.
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Hong Lieu: But you were you were down in San Diego in the San Diego area right.
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Kindred Murillo: So yeah yeah I got coast.
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Kindred Murillo: yeah yeah yeah I actually am half a mile from the ocean and San Diego where we live and where that's like cold at the time, and so we we we.
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Kindred Murillo: that's not the drive I will tell you, though, I have allergies, so I stay close to the ocean, because I am allergic to pine trees and I found that if I live in a moist humid environment I I have so many less problems.
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Kindred Murillo: So health wise that's important for me to be close to humidity whether it's by the ocean or not that's not a big deal as much all the way with the ocean, but what what brought me to Santa Barbara city college, I actually came here in 2016 and interviewed for your superintendent President.
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Kindred Murillo: And I believe, then, that I was the right person, and now I believe even more after my last four and a half years of working in Community college in a very.
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Kindred Murillo: And i'm going to save this with very good care a very racially charged environment that I feel like I have the skill set that can hopefully.
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Kindred Murillo: help create a strategy and implement that strategy to help the College move forward in diversity, equity, inclusion and creating an environment where everybody feels safe along and that I i'm you know I spent years.
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Kindred Murillo: See 14 years and pretty heavy duty training around equity diversity and inclusion i'm On top of that, I got the financial skill set to help the College, I also if we choose to go with a bond, I have the bond background, when I applied here before.
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Kindred Murillo: I knew that there was a very good faculty and staff.
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Kindred Murillo: and leadership at this College to get it where it was it had been in a place of really doing good things for students and i'm all about students so that's why I originally applied here and that's why i'm back again because I think I even have more experience.
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Kindred Murillo: And I also who leave that as when emerging from coven.
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Kindred Murillo: I really think.
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Kindred Murillo: We can exceed our own expectations.
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Kindred Murillo: You know it, what did they say the bones are good.
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Kindred Murillo: college is a solid college, but let's just say that is real, it means.
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Kindred Murillo: Good leadership.
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Kindred Murillo: In a way, that cares about people and cares about students that also holds people accountable to standards.
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Kindred Murillo: And, as my former using Union President used to tell me, he said you're very caring person.
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Kindred Murillo: And you have like a steel titanium backbone.
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Kindred Murillo: So you will hold people accountable to.
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Kindred Murillo: The right things even and you care deeply and I think that is a good combination for this college.
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Kindred Murillo: And you're going to hold people accountable.
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Akil Hill: it's the balance that's what I hear.
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ya.
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Hong Lieu: And both sides of that are very important.
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Hong Lieu: Like I think I think of appeals mom has had the same way.
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Hong Lieu: titanium backbone, but very caring, you know very caring very patient person, but if you mess up mess, the kids mom the wrong way like yeah you don't want to cross any part any part of that.
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Hong Lieu: So yeah.
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Akil Hill: hung used to work with my mom my mother at Santa Barbara public library So yes, that is exactly who my mom is see does it take no mess, but at the same time, will love you unconditionally so yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: You know it's like you can't go after the College faculty with me as a president you better be careful, you know, because to me i'm here I.
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Kindred Murillo: have to make sure that I, promote and defend my faculty and staff and protect them and take care of them their well being so important.
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Kindred Murillo: And, and you have to be like a model right.
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Kindred Murillo: And, and yet you're gonna like know you, you should this is the rules, you gotta stick with.
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yeah.
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Hong Lieu: So I guess my follow up question here, I guess what does that what does it deliver what does that deliverable look like in terms of delivering on ti work, and you know.
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Hong Lieu: enacting a plan like I know rainbows aren't just going to appear in the skies part and everyone's all like holding hands together and dancing in the middle of the West campus lawn.
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Akil Hill: You never know.
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Akil Hill: I know.
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Hong Lieu: i'm willing to i'm willing to believe, but essentially what, what are the expectations, what would you what does that deliverable look like, I just have no idea really but but we're what folks are expecting in terms of what you're planning to do, I guess.
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Hong Lieu: Without getting too much in the weeds but in a broad sense yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: You know that's I think that's an important question, so let me tell you what it looks like.
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Kindred Murillo: In the It means that we put in, we look, and we review our policies and practices that keeps structural racism in place and you'd be surprised how much policies procedures can do that.
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Kindred Murillo: So that's one that they change that when you're doing an email policy and you're doing i'm hiring policy is very clear statement in there.
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Kindred Murillo: That we value not only sensitivity to wait that phrase i'm sorry very honest that I do, it has to be you have demonstrated experience in new value diversity in equity.
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Kindred Murillo: I don't want to hire anybody that doesn't do that they shouldn't be working in a college, because we are diverse institutions that are supposed to be creating equitable outcomes, so that gets to the next one.
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Kindred Murillo: We close the equity gaps.
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Kindred Murillo: That is a very strong outcome that, for me, since 2008 when Dr Helen Benjamin trained us on how to look at data and look at the disparate impacts on our students and our employees.
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Kindred Murillo: That we make sure that we are closing those equity gaps and what does that look like for an employee okay well let's let's take that one step further.
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Kindred Murillo: And what that looks like for an employee structural racism and let's get to the facts most low paid employees in an organization or usually the employees thought.
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Kindred Murillo: it's a real it's real.
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Kindred Murillo: And so, that means diversifying your faculty staff and leadership in a way that the diversity is through the entire institution.
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Kindred Murillo: So one of the things that I was most proud of in my prior college was that, when I got to the College, we were 83% white in the executive leadership when I left the College, we were 75% diverse.
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Kindred Murillo: I diversified the middle management by 14% by going in in you would have thought I killed somebody i'm serious I just thought i'd killed somebody when I required to first hiring committees.
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Kindred Murillo: And I don't mean all we're going to go pick out one person put them on the hiring Committee, I mean they had to go through Eo training before they could even participate.
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Kindred Murillo: And their actual had to meet diversity on the hiring committee.
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Kindred Murillo: And we did disparate impact report, so that if there was a disparate impact on people we snapped back by hiring instead it's time dude Oregon.
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Kindred Murillo: It culminates in job descriptions being changed in job denounced that's being changed on all your hiring practices, but ultimately, if you're going to diversify.
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Kindred Murillo: i'm a college and frankly I ran stats every year in the fall, we ran our stats.
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Kindred Murillo: The prior prior eight years before I got to the College, the College and diversified by point, get this point 6%.
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Kindred Murillo: Now this is in a community that is primarily diverse.
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Kindred Murillo: In three and a half years we diversified Southwestern college by 9% overall.
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Kindred Murillo: And, and the middle middle management was 14%.
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Kindred Murillo: that's pretty good that's the outcome and then what happens is, you see, decision making change because you've got the first voices at the table right yeah.
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Hong Lieu: You know, and I liked it the base of that is something that's quantifiable, you can actually just point and say hey look at that statistic is very easy to see there's not something about like.
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Hong Lieu: Like pulling people's mind there's some amorphous thing that's very hard to quantify.
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Hong Lieu: You have a quantifiable basically you start with and everything leads from there anything you can hang your hat on that just that.
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Hong Lieu: But then all the counter the consequences and consequences of those kinds of things it's just like yeah it just.
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Hong Lieu: keeps keeps keeps the gift that keeps on giving so that that's just yeah that's that's what I was looking at here in terms of.
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Hong Lieu: Because I really had no idea I know I do what the not end game, so to speak, but what the you know what the.
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Hong Lieu: deliverable was and just you giving me that a quantifiable status he's like oh just point to that say hey that happened and just seeing that whatever happens from that it's probably going to be good, I mean that's yeah Thank you.
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Kindred Murillo: It changes the conversation yeah absolutely changes the conversation when you.
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Kindred Murillo: My executive leadership team, the conversations we used to have and don't kid yourself there's conflict in the room, because you.
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Kindred Murillo: are diverse opinions.
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Kindred Murillo: But you have to manage the conflict come with a good decision, because you know when when we had to have a conversation about police.
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Kindred Murillo: And I have an African American black VP that looks at me and start sharing, will you have to think about the Community I grew up in and what it was like and you have to think about how that must have felt or how it felt for us.
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Kindred Murillo: it's like okay there's not been that kind of conversation here before.
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Kindred Murillo: yeah it makes a difference in how you think about things.
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Akil Hill: yeah absolutely it does, I mean I can remember incidents on campus that had occurred in years past, and you know some of.
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Akil Hill: People in president's cabinet we're trying to tell our black students, that they have to report to security, but i'm like yeah that's true, however.
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Akil Hill: Do you understand the context, it was as to why they would say anything is security right, and so, but again right this they just didn't understand that.
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Akil Hill: That frame of like yeah you know they've there's a lot of students that have been put in bad situations by doing such things and so.
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Akil Hill: You know, just to be able to have that awareness, to be like okay trying to look at it through a different lens or someone else's shoes is absolutely critical and important to the institution.
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Kindred Murillo: It really is, and so I think there was a great question I got tons of examples I go on forever, because this is like, even when I was retired for six months that's what I was doing through my consulting program or my consulting business was ddi work.
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Hong Lieu: And this idea of conflict is being inherently bad I you know, like I don't know where that's I think about that book team of rivals all the time, but Joyce Joyce Carol.
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Hong Lieu: look it up i'll put in the show notes, but the movie by Abraham Lincoln and his cabinet yeah we intentionally staff that with.
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Hong Lieu: You know folks that didn't quite agree because that conflict, the he knew there were a bunch of brilliant minds in the room, and just getting them to hash things out would create you know.
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Hong Lieu: Good things come out of that kind of conflict when you know what the stakes are like no one's gonna sit there and go, you know fisticuffs are not going to ensue you're going to have a hearty conversation, and you should be better for it at the at the end of it.
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Kindred Murillo: so easily yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: You know and and I think that's that's.
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Kindred Murillo: Part of it is that tension of conflict so when it's still people are not like attacking people.
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Kindred Murillo: it's about learning to listen to somebody viewpoint and learning to speak your truth in a way, where people can hear you.
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Kindred Murillo: Right so it's a skill set on both sides.
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yeah.
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Akil Hill: yeah and also, we know that.
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Akil Hill: it's the the challenges that define us right when everything's going great well, of course, everything is going to be great.
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Akil Hill: But what i'm concerned about is when when the challenges arise what you'll find out really quickly what you really have so it's always through the opposites, do you really understand.
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Akil Hill: Or you come to understand something, because when everything is going good you're gonna you're going to be happy, you know.
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Hong Lieu: And in terms of the most malicious types of conflict, what do you always hear it's always the passive aggressive or behind your back.
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Hong Lieu: it's always the stuff that's indirect when you have that direct conflict and actually having a conversation about being able to hash it out in a setting like that that you know it's relatively.
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Hong Lieu: relatively safe space, I mean only good things can happen, you know the iron sharpens iron, as it were, so yeah I mean you know.
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Kindred Murillo: I have to tell you it's It really is true, I mean when you learn to take your skill set and do that.
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Kindred Murillo: You know I think one of the most powerful conversations i've ever been honored sit through was one where an African American black millennial.
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Kindred Murillo: And a Latino males sat there, and like have this dialogue for ios I think it went on for two to three hours and they let me sit in the room, listen.
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Kindred Murillo: I gotta tell you I walked out of there forever changed because of the the the sort of.
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Kindred Murillo: The conflict that took place in a way that says, I care about what you think, and I also want you to hear my experience.
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Kindred Murillo: You know, because my experience has been different than yours.
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Kindred Murillo: And and and not better or worse or whatever, but it's been different, and I that's the hard piece that I think that that's what I hope, out of training is to help people have.
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Kindred Murillo: conversation.
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Hong Lieu: yeah and those those kind of conversations just knowing from from growing up in La and and seeing how kind of those kind of interactions on the streets occurred like that that must have been a very kind of powerful powerful conversation.
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Hong Lieu: So segue a little bit um didn't kind of before we go on our food things that you're from San Diego I have to ask, are you like a California burrito person, are you putting Fries with the carny saw that in the burrito or you have a.
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Kindred Murillo: Okay, well, I was born in new Mexico, so let me tell you, who I am okay.
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Kindred Murillo: let's talk surely yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: All right, yeah yeah yeah I mean I grew up albuquerque new Mexico is in Chile, capital of the world, so.
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Kindred Murillo: We basically he, like.
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Hong Lieu: Have you talked to Z.
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Akil Hill: yeah yeah that's like to Z.
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Hong Lieu: Another new Mexico native and zz.
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Akil Hill: yeah yeah.
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Hong Lieu: He was given us the lowdown some spots out there to get the good Green Chile and stuff too so i'm definitely.
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Kindred Murillo: Looking for this.
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Kindred Murillo: podcast because the heart in California, to get that here.
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Hong Lieu: No, no, he say you're not getting into gear.
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Hong Lieu: yeah back in albuquerque so.
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Kindred Murillo: yeah friends who actually order it and have it shipped to watch well actually have a nice, who has it shipped in Washington DC and they haven't been roasting party.
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Kindred Murillo: So we're bad we're bad human beings that.
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Kindred Murillo: Could yeah wise probably everything in the world, but it's pretty much grounded and julie's.
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Hong Lieu: Alright, so I guess, we will segue now that's perfect segue into our food section so um.
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Hong Lieu: Do you want to kind of kind of kick things off for us and give us a rundown of have any favorite meals favorite restaurants TV net and throughout throughout your life or in any sort of memorable kind of kind of food memories that stick out to you.
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Kindred Murillo: Well, I love food okay that's, the first thing in my house, when I was being raised my parents from the south so food is a way of saying I love you.
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Kindred Murillo: Right.
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Hong Lieu: Correct.
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Kindred Murillo: yeah so it's it's we my husband I both love food he his family comes from a traditional Mexican family kind of mutual COM.
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Kindred Murillo: I grew up with southern cooking you know the cornbread and fried chicken and the whole I mean my God that was you know meatloaf you know the whole southern thing.
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Kindred Murillo: Because we you know it's out of farming communities and things um what I would say, is my favorite experiences have been eating a.
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Kindred Murillo: stuffed so green chili stuff soap appear in old town in new Mexico that's I love that I love.
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Kindred Murillo: You know there's an old town restaurant down there that just I can't even think of its name that it's just creates I love those pieces and the problem for us is, I think, Michael and I can make better Mexican food than most restaurants.
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Kindred Murillo: Because he has his grandmother's stuff I you know, so we got so we really have a lot of time and favorites.
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Kindred Murillo: More molly is particularly the one that I love, because it takes 26 ingredients and all day to make so that's something so if I find a really good moly restaurant.
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Kindred Murillo: And I understand there's one in San Diego and I haven't been there yet, but I also heard Santa Barbara there's a family who owns Mexican restaurants, that they have some really great moly so i'm looking forward to that.
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Akil Hill: I can give you a spot right out the shot in regards to mobile because I love Malaysia as well.
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Akil Hill: there's a chain it actually I think it originated in ventura but they have.
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Akil Hill: A restaurant Santa Barbara carnival carnival it's right there on Korea.
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Akil Hill: Right yeah there are moly is amazing I haven't i've only eating them only down in ventura and in oxnard but it's really good that sweet just kind of.
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Akil Hill: Like that just yeah that I can't even i'm trying to get to my taste buds right now but i'm a big.
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Akil Hill: fan of Malaysia, but cornea baka in Santa Barbara molly is probably the best that i've tried.
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Kindred Murillo: Okay, great and.
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Hong Lieu: And the thing about Malays it's it's so very like I feel like everyone has their own every family has their own moldy recipe, in terms of.
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Hong Lieu: The little twist on the spices, you had because there's so many spices, you can throw in there.
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Hong Lieu: One little twist and it's a totally different flavor dimension, you know the Malays where they don't use chocolate, the mall is where they do use chocolate.
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Hong Lieu: What kind of chocolate they're using what is obsolete, though they got some kind of secret plug that's getting them the good stuff like it's really so varied and.
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Hong Lieu: Just so delicious that and and whatever you serve it on it just adds that layer to it like molly is good, a good kind of catch all delicious you know food stuff.
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Akil Hill: For sure, do you guys remember the scene and like water for chocolate which is.
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Akil Hill: She cries into the molly and that was the secret.
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Hong Lieu: yeah oh yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: No hey just everybody has their thing my husband, does he is normally I do like I like the dark molly really a lot.
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Kindred Murillo: You know it's it's fun, because you it's does have that variation I think my second other food that I love.
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Kindred Murillo: And, and I was just introduced to this now, I have a friend who is biracial or she got herself biracial she's half Filipino half white.
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Kindred Murillo: And so, she brought me a bowl of thought, when I was sick, can you hold on a second Let me close my door I think i'm hearing some noises that, let me grab yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: So I was sharing about a friend of mine who, when I was sick one day she brought me a bowl of thought and I have never had and i'm like all my God my husband and I became addicted so I set out last year to learn to make it.
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Kindred Murillo: Talk about a process.
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Hong Lieu: Where you're boiling bones yeah you're boiling bone.
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Kindred Murillo: Here you are so that became like oh my gosh so trying to create the different variation you know, because that you know you have the fresh vegetables and stuff that go in and.
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Kindred Murillo: And something that got me into sort of what I call this venture of all kinds of different suits of like i've been doing cpr key you didn't.
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Kindred Murillo: You know, we just kind of going across the board, was Soups and trying to make like different ones from all over the world, so that's been fun.
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Hong Lieu: I was gonna say it's false was perfect super but it's like 150 degrees outside, so I guess it doesn't fit right now but soup is good and how whether it's you i'm up on the school of the sweat is actually good for you as well.
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Akil Hill: As from that school i've when I bear witness to that comment.
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Kindred Murillo: yeah.
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Hong Lieu: I def I definitely love to sweat when I am speaking of which I do remember the last town hall you, you mentioned that you, you either you or your husband are both there.
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Hong Lieu: You mentioned hasn't physically, but I think you as well, are really in a chili's.
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Hong Lieu: Are we talking like chilis for spice or chilis for flavor or just any chili under the sun, I know you're from new Mexico, so of course you got the Spice power but.
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Hong Lieu: Are you are you going for those like challenge chilies like ghost peppers and stuff or is it you know just certain chilies that kind of wet your appetite.
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Kindred Murillo: Oh no we're on we're full we're equal opportunity across the board.
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Kindred Murillo: You know everything from hot.
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Kindred Murillo: He lends itself to more hot than I do, but I work really hard I make a red sauce and I make a green sauce and so you know I ramped it up, depending on what we're thinking about using it for.
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Kindred Murillo: That yeah we love we love the full spectrum, we went to we went to class to learn how to figure out all the chilies all the different spices what they mean what how you should use them, so we did a cooking class together.
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Hong Lieu: Did you go to school in new Mexico.
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Kindred Murillo: Well, we flew back to new Mexico for a class.
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Hong Lieu: Because I know they have that chili lab at the University of new Mexico and that, I mean i'll always wanted to go because that's where they.
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Hong Lieu: The first, you know started doing the blends you know, in terms of like Carolina reapers and yeah and blending everything with the ghost pepper and so i've always wanted to go that's that's pretty exciting here.
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Kindred Murillo: Oh, they have some great cooking classes, there you should really consider it my brothers both taught at the University of new Mexico so yeah you should come to that i'm going to do it again.
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Hong Lieu: i've always i've always wanted to drive out there, but then I I don't know how I would do driving in the snow so at the time the trip properly, so I don't get caught, you know and.
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Kindred Murillo: Now albuquerque it's not too bad you know it's really pretty yeah doesn't smoke too bad most the time in the freeways are pretty good.
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Here, this.
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Hong Lieu: Article you got any PICs for this.
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Akil Hill: yeah well out of.
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Akil Hill: Since it is Hispanic heritage month I think i'm going to drop.
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Akil Hill: One of my favorites are and it's big come.
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Akil Hill: One of my favorites recently more as the corazon casino and hung and I actually ate there I don't know, was it maybe a few weeks ago.
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Akil Hill: yeah yeah.
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Akil Hill: it's down in the public market in Santa Barbara on as it to Paula Paula Victoria.
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Hong Lieu: And they and they have a second location, now they have two locations, one is there one in the project kind of closer to the Funk zone, you know.
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Hong Lieu: Okay, you open up a new location, but then that original one in the public market is their their flagship yeah.
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So.
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Akil Hill: it's it's it's it's really good I mean I one of them I usually get to my to go tues are the shrimp tacos.
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Akil Hill: And the taco is it as a tacos or Daniels.
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Hong Lieu: isn't really knows the carnies other one is any.
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Akil Hill: Other cornice other yeah.
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Akil Hill: And that's the coordinates other one is the Korean sada with the beans and.
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Akil Hill: What I really like about the places after you finish eating you don't feel that that sluggish feeling, you know it's like you feel good the flavors are really good and you don't feel heavy after you eat so that's my pick for the week.
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Hong Lieu: And I will say this about like you know folks sometimes skeptical about quote unquote like expensive tacos or whatever, and then this that the food is not it's not going to be like $1 25 for your taco but the quality and the craftsmanship in this food is.
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Hong Lieu: Is yeah unbelievable and I also it also to speak to the point of.
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Hong Lieu: People sometimes feel like they think certain foods to be priced a certain way, which has a little bit of bias inherent to like folks he's always taught say that about Chinese food like when you had a.
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Hong Lieu: conical nice Chinese restaurant like well why does this cost so much i'm going to Panda for yada yada, why does this taco cost so much I can just go to this truck and get it for $1 there's different levels of craftsmanship there's different levels of ingredient procurement.
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Hong Lieu: there's all that, though, the whole kind of food infrastructure is.
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Hong Lieu: is universal so so in terms of like what you get you're getting tortillas.
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Hong Lieu: made by hand and you're getting you're getting you know that the.
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Kindred Murillo: chicken that's that's that's.
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Hong Lieu: coming off the farms antibiotics yada yada free so there's just levels to this game, and you just have to be open to all that stuff because I used to do that, I used to be that guy, but I just kept like.
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Hong Lieu: I get 10 times for the prices when, but when you take one bite of this talk when you really do appreciate the craft the craftsman i'd say, not to say that gratitude is not inheriting the other versions, because it but it's just different.
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Hong Lieu: So you just had it kind of yeah and it's really delicious.
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Kindred Murillo: So it's on my list when like I told my son, because I was reading about them that they opened up the location out and folk song I guess all.
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Hong Lieu: In the project yeah they thought there was called a project like front of the captain fatties brewery used to be uniondale but yeah.
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Akil Hill: it's a ginger fight name.
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Akil Hill: don't when you say we hear the word project it's not like.
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Hong Lieu: we'll go with that that little building yeah.
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Akil Hill: yeah yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: yeah cuz their buildings right down, I saw it, I was blocking my hotels down below the College down you come down the hill towards.
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Kindred Murillo: Free not free oh it's Korea is.
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Akil Hill: tested, you can steal.
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Kindred Murillo: yeah yeah okay.
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Kindred Murillo: Do and you go down, and you go right past that I could walk over to in there right there and I was telling I was reading about the reopening.
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Kindred Murillo: After coven and I thought I told my son and I sent it to Michael and my son and said Okay, here we go, we bounced comes up who's my son we're going to go to this is my son loves like really good Mexican food and I love them Corbett song that is favorite word.
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Akil Hill: You won't be disappointed and then also another plug for them the Aga frescoes are good I usually I lean a little bit more towards the.
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Akil Hill: it's the ginger Is it the ginger line with chia seeds that's what I kind of lean for the auger frescoes and then also they do black beans and plantations that are really good to that.
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Akil Hill: probably get overlooked, but yeah everything from that.
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Akil Hill: From places is definitely this of each Asia and other go to as well, so you guys try it out, and let us know.
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Hong Lieu: they've added desserts the cheesecake and all that stuff now so yeah.
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Kindred Murillo: Oh yeah Oh, you know.
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yeah.
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Akil Hill: yeah.
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Akil Hill: that's my PIC hung, what do you got for us.
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Hong Lieu: So this week, I want to highlight a bunch of a bunch of spots that have opened up in my area I know kill in previous episodes is kind of be cried the lack of.
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Hong Lieu: trucks installs and stands around town in Santa Barbara it's kind of hard to get off the ground because of the extra infrastructure costs of doing business Santa Barbara.
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Hong Lieu: But I live on the West side of town just kind of right next to Santa SPC and on our main drags and Andrew is we have about.
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Hong Lieu: Four taco trucks now a lot to go alongside the the star wars that have been here for many years, you know supergroup goes and i'll set up a shout out to Andy Gill holding it down to Gil family and i'll set up a that they do.
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Hong Lieu: Both of those occasions do great food that we're supporting as well, but we have three food trucks and one food Stan that have been opened up recently.
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Hong Lieu: Within within the last 18 months probably due to build in some way, but here we have glorious gourmet which is Sandra is in Korea.
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Hong Lieu: you're tackling a minnow which parks in the back of food land, we have the Dom taco truck which parks in the hardware store and then we have.
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Hong Lieu: nihilists tacos tacos and in Mexico, the customer right other centers and Korean excellent gas station and i've had a chance to try all the all the food and it's all really good.
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Hong Lieu: I don't want to pick because I want folks to kind of kind of try to do a little taco crawl there and try them all and support kind of support small businesses in the neighborhood there's there's no rankings here but they're all good they're all worth trying.
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Hong Lieu: And I just I just love seeing all this kind of pop up work come up I don't love the circumstances, because I know.
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Hong Lieu: That that kind of pivot can be hard on folks the most likely, it was something like I had a job I don't I don't do something else I got a pivot you got to find a way to make money.
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Hong Lieu: You know, someone who grew up in those kind of situations with my family, I can see the back end of it being can be kind of stressful but just seeing the the work that they're putting out in the field of the printing out.
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Hong Lieu: is really good and just just the craftsmanship and their work to like you know we talked about cornerstone.
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Hong Lieu: With their kind of you know what their level what their what their treatments these folks are doing the the one to two to $3 tacos or they got combo deals and it's and it's just as good as just different you know so try them all out and give it a go.
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Akil Hill: it's refreshing to hear.
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Akil Hill: Though because my whole my whole stick on Santa Barbara is like.
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Akil Hill: You know, like it's so hard for the food trucks, to open up and to me that's a part of the culture, you know, like you just want to be there with.
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Akil Hill: You know, supporting one supporting the local business to.
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Akil Hill: Just be engrossed and in a culture that for me that's other than my own and just being a feeling.
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Akil Hill: Eating and Community like that's what it's about and food trucks to me in bodies that you know where you're standing next to someone, you know that you probably normally you probably wouldn't even cross paths, you know and.
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Hong Lieu: And that's the nice thing about it is you see a lot of folks getting off work stopping by for a breeder or towards a couple tacos just sitting and being able to kind of kind of.
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Hong Lieu: kind of bask in that and and most of these places actually do take ven mo now so a lot of it used to be like cash only you know, two card, because you know a lot of these things are barriers, you know the the POs system can be a barrier.
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Hong Lieu: card acceptance can be a barrier, but there, but some of this tech stuff as bad as we say, the social media all that stuff is.
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Hong Lieu: There are some benefits to it and Ben mo is one of them, because most of these vendors, all these vendors actually take card because.
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Hong Lieu: Of a mix of n mo or other things where they can they can do that now, and I do feel, sometimes like oh i'm the bad guy that has a credit card.
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Hong Lieu: But it is also nice to know that they do you accommodate I also want to give one more shout out because there's on the weekends, there is a tamale card.
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Hong Lieu: party from the gas station on centers and books trina and they take men well as well, but they do banana leaf tamales not the corn husk tamales.
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Akil Hill: So it was ones are good.
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Hong Lieu: And it's still masa basically someone asked me, is it yada yada base, because I know some folks do that style, but this is still masa but just with the banana leaf, and the end it just gives it like a more moist kind of steam.
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Hong Lieu: And they do, and they do a free hotel is one beans in it, which is beans in masa and I was like Oh, I thought that was my least favorite one, but the way they spice to beans makes it like.
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Hong Lieu: It really gives you like a flavor for pop and they put the ohana I think belief.
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Hong Lieu: That that guy has a nice little season to it so yeah that I don't know the name of that spot.
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Hong Lieu: I know the vendor name that I paid, but they don't have like a you know but i'll try to get some info for the show notes and i'll put that in for folks so we can try.
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Hong Lieu: You can just test all the spots out because it is really worth doing a crawl on this neighborhoods about maybe two or three blocks total so you could theoretically hit all six spots, if you include those that are pay and superglue because.
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Hong Lieu: You can hit all the taco truck stalls and the to stand up, restaurants and just and just be a normal kind of chill walk so.
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Kindred Murillo: You have to see me the location.
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Hong Lieu: I will definitely will.
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Akil Hill: Well, and another thing that I was thinking about to what's is so unique is that what you're eating is you're probably.
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Akil Hill: Like at the trucks are more likely than at the stands but you're getting like generational recipes probably passed down right so that's you know that's you know, been passed down to.
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Akil Hill: You know, and so you're getting to experience that and where else, are you going to really experience that so that's another benefit of getting out and supporting local businesses and and and our communities, you know.
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Hong Lieu: Focus focus tested on families for generations absolutely and.
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Hong Lieu: Exactly and The thing is, in terms of.
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Hong Lieu: barriers for entry, you know starting a business is not easy and for folks that you know, even if you if you do have the wherewithal to go to the bank and get alone that's not easy.
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Hong Lieu: But if you don't have that option and you're trying to just kind of make something out of nothing, so to speak.
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Hong Lieu: I mean, it can be very tough and your margins are super thin and your your margin of error is very high, so so folks that are the put themselves out there and try to do something.
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Hong Lieu: I mean it's worth supporting, he may not be the best of whatever whatever, but in terms of supporting that part of the culture of.
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Hong Lieu: Helping folks that are putting themselves out there, and you know, putting their wares out for sale.
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Hong Lieu: it's I feel like, no matter what is supporting that's why i've tried to avoid ranking like you know in my early years I was like always.
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Hong Lieu: A best of kind of present and then now that I met some like a Q actually knows what the best of things are because I realized, as I get older I have zero tastes like I just see everything.
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Hong Lieu: So I need I need something like someone like a Q actually has some curation to his kind of like a criteria, where i'm just like.
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Hong Lieu: kid does it fit in my mouth and it's good you know but but, but even before that I was I realized like yeah it's less about the best for me and more about just kind of going out there just getting as many as I can, and supporting when I can, where I can.
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Kindred Murillo: Great.
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Hong Lieu: Alright, so we are good eatin segment we didn't I didn't preface it with the names of the same and now we're going to kind of transition, the higher learning.
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Hong Lieu: Our culture piece so Dr Murillo you, you always put out your your missives in email and you're always dropping.
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Hong Lieu: Like quotes and and books that we should be checking out, I mean I feel like this, this segment is right up your alley in terms of.
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Hong Lieu: If there's anything you know any additional knowledge you kind of want to drop in this episode just for folks somebody should check out or or you can just point to your missus actually because there's a fount of knowledge in there as well, but if you want to kick us off again.
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Kindred Murillo: Well i'm a lifelong learner and you've probably figured that out by reading my things to know and ponder.
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Kindred Murillo: Because I think it's so critical to keep learning so what I try to do is I like when I talk to somebody, and I say okay what what book, are you reading or what's your favorite book, I really want to understand your culture which may be reading.
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Kindred Murillo: In now, and I think you know that, for me, has been really helpful because.
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Kindred Murillo: You know I.
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Kindred Murillo: I worked with a financial advisor right before I was going to visit China and.
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Kindred Murillo: She was, I think she ultimately wrote the book daughter of China and she was working on it when I went when I was getting ready to go and and I talked to her about her experience and so, then I went to China, and then I came back and.
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Kindred Murillo: And then I met with her, and then I read her book.
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Kindred Murillo: So it was like okay it helped me so much more understand the Cultural Revolution, what happened in China sort of this.
430
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Kindred Murillo: is how the culture evolved and when you think about it, and this was what just I never thought about it this way.
431
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Kindred Murillo: Was you know you're talking about the longest dynasty and culture in in the world right on earth.
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Kindred Murillo: is China, I mean I think it's one fifth of one six population, but what that did, for me, when I when I went through that experience with her was it.
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Kindred Murillo: gave me a depth of understanding that I wouldn't have had going out and walking the streets in China.
434
00:58:08.070 --> 00:58:19.260
Kindred Murillo: I used to get up in the morning and I would go like downtown walk start walking the streets of Chang higher machine or going Zhang or you know the areas where I was visiting.
435
00:58:19.980 --> 00:58:35.970
Kindred Murillo: Is I really liked the central part of China, and so I think that having that voice in my head from her really helped so that kind of got me in this mode of Okay, how do I understand more.
436
00:58:37.590 --> 00:58:47.970
Kindred Murillo: What influences your world and culture, you know so one of my like books like if we're thinking about Hispanic heritage month, you know I had a friend.
437
00:58:50.190 --> 00:59:00.090
Kindred Murillo: And well friend colleague abuse colleague are concerned that, for now, on the recommended to me bless me ultimate by an idea by a radical anya.
438
00:59:00.210 --> 00:59:06.840
Kindred Murillo: Writing and reading that book puts you in a place with your mind, then.
439
00:59:08.310 --> 00:59:11.340
Kindred Murillo: You wouldn't be otherwise, did you does that make sense.
440
00:59:11.550 --> 00:59:12.150
Hong Lieu: Oh yeah it.
441
00:59:13.110 --> 00:59:14.700
Kindred Murillo: Is I mean it's a.
442
00:59:14.700 --> 00:59:28.020
Kindred Murillo: Life lesson right, I mean you know seriously it's it's just so amazing um and the other one I never have read Claudia rankin and.
443
00:59:30.060 --> 00:59:40.710
Kindred Murillo: Latina colleague of mine, she was like oh you got to read this book and so she sent me the citizen and so i've been like i've been coming you know I.
444
00:59:40.890 --> 00:59:49.290
Kindred Murillo: had her you know and her viewpoint of that another amazing book.
445
00:59:51.330 --> 01:00:05.010
Kindred Murillo: You know that, for me, was like okay we're we're digging into how it feels here, you know and frankly i'm a huge James baldwin fan, and I.
446
01:00:05.100 --> 01:00:05.850
guess.
447
01:00:07.110 --> 01:00:16.830
Kindred Murillo: You know I read like the pieces of young in because he's so smart yeah think about the world through his eyes right.
448
01:00:18.720 --> 01:00:19.440
Kindred Murillo: and
449
01:00:20.790 --> 01:00:37.620
Kindred Murillo: So I sit there in my son gaming is book, where the different with all the different stories it's I get a got it up here similar um it's the grouping, and I, and I like read through them and then I have to go back and read through them again.
450
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.070
Kindred Murillo: Because it just.
451
01:00:42.750 --> 01:00:51.960
Kindred Murillo: It helps us like go away man my experience growing up in the United States was this way.
452
01:00:52.950 --> 01:01:02.760
Kindred Murillo: More a lot of other people's experience was this way and I was brought up with them by a working class family my dad worked in their own and we were always sort of them.
453
01:01:03.330 --> 01:01:13.740
Kindred Murillo: You know my mom made my clothes, you know we weren't rich, I would say we were sort of like working class bottom of the middle class sort of you know, growing up.
454
01:01:14.370 --> 01:01:27.060
Kindred Murillo: And so it was like Okay, I had it way too good considering um, but I think those are the things that I believe we have to experience.
455
01:01:27.870 --> 01:01:45.390
Kindred Murillo: You know you have to go read James baldwin you just need to need to read Claudia ranking for me Rudolph all and I was just incredible spending time with Latino poets, we used to have the drum circle and.
456
01:01:46.560 --> 01:01:52.050
Kindred Murillo: Francisco boosters used to run this drum circle and we even have in all these.
457
01:01:53.130 --> 01:02:04.260
Kindred Murillo: poets from the Latino community and they were talking about their life to talk about the words to talk about their activism, and I think those experiences.
458
01:02:05.250 --> 01:02:25.380
Kindred Murillo: And immersing yourself in them really can help you be a better person and help us be more empathetic and more standing across sort of every every piece, that we need to to to really understand, and I think as a community college President, or even a faculty Member staff member.
459
01:02:26.610 --> 01:02:28.920
Kindred Murillo: Because we we.
460
01:02:30.150 --> 01:02:34.620
Kindred Murillo: We serve such a diverse group of students and, frankly, our.
461
01:02:35.730 --> 01:02:41.280
Kindred Murillo: colleges should be more diverse they're getting there slowly getting there um.
462
01:02:42.750 --> 01:02:59.250
Kindred Murillo: You need to have that respect you have to be a word, you have to understand and and you have to see discussion that's different from yours um you know when I read how to be an Anti racist you know you.
463
01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:01.470
Kindred Murillo: Okay.
464
01:03:02.610 --> 01:03:21.930
Kindred Murillo: wow I gotta go think about that for about an hour um you know, one of my favorite books in that realm and I was just trying to pull back up it's and I think i've put a code up quote out there for people i'm still here black dignity in a world made by Austin channing Brown.
465
01:03:23.580 --> 01:03:25.350
Kindred Murillo: That, if you.
466
01:03:25.380 --> 01:03:25.770
Come.
467
01:03:26.790 --> 01:03:29.490
Kindred Murillo: From a different culture doubt that.
468
01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:33.060
Akil Hill: It yeah yeah.
469
01:03:33.570 --> 01:03:34.590
Kindred Murillo: it's powerful.
470
01:03:36.300 --> 01:03:52.260
Akil Hill: yeah I can relate to that book so much, I read the book and it's a short read for for our listeners, I mean you can power through that really quickly, and I just you know it just that was like for me that reached the depths of my soul, because I could just relate to so much of that.
471
01:03:53.850 --> 01:03:54.240
Kindred Murillo: yeah.
472
01:03:54.630 --> 01:04:01.620
Hong Lieu: And I know we spoke earlier in the episode about kind of how do you open folks hearts, and I really think that is the key piece of is you do do it like.
473
01:04:02.610 --> 01:04:08.670
Hong Lieu: inadvertently or surreptitiously you know, like give them a book and you say you know there's no there's no kind of pretends to it.
474
01:04:08.970 --> 01:04:12.210
Hong Lieu: I don't want you to I don't want to take anything from this book, I just want you to read it.
475
01:04:12.690 --> 01:04:19.740
Hong Lieu: And just reading some of these words, you know notes of a native son these these kind of books you just naturally you can't refinish the book.
476
01:04:20.040 --> 01:04:24.690
Hong Lieu: Without gleaning some sort of insight from it, those the book you talk about about the Cultural Revolution, the book, you know, like.
477
01:04:24.930 --> 01:04:29.820
Hong Lieu: that's the ultimate blessed Milton is kind of has some spiritual themes to it, you know there's there's some mystical elements to it.
478
01:04:30.180 --> 01:04:38.070
Hong Lieu: As someone who grew up in a House that was very superstitious and kind of believed in these kind of mystical things I gravitate to it immediately, but for someone who, maybe is a little more skeptical.
479
01:04:38.580 --> 01:04:44.280
Hong Lieu: But just finished the book, you know just finished the book and even if you still don't believe in these kind of things, these kind of forces and mystical powers.
480
01:04:44.610 --> 01:04:49.710
Hong Lieu: Even you know, believe in it, you have a little bit more empathy towards folks that do you have a little bit more of an understanding.
481
01:04:49.950 --> 01:04:59.940
Hong Lieu: Of kind of the world view and the lens that we that we talked about in terms of how folks can live this way I mean a lot of them are just a lot of them are coping mechanisms kind of how couched into culture.
482
01:05:00.180 --> 01:05:05.400
Hong Lieu: You know so there's just ways to kind of get through the day for a lot of folks so it's not like it's like the folks that are in these worlds.
483
01:05:05.850 --> 01:05:17.220
Hong Lieu: prescribed these heady kind of meanings in this wait two things there's no way to have to just live into your day game for the day like you have to make it as painless as possible, so so a lot of these things are externally ascribed so.
484
01:05:17.820 --> 01:05:25.140
Hong Lieu: So, in terms of that heart opening I feel like that's that's the way to do it is like is to try to make it unconscious unconscious as possible.
485
01:05:25.350 --> 01:05:34.110
Hong Lieu: And as natural as possible it's just you know, like and that's where sometimes I feel like these trainings can be a little over overwrought I mean they're all good but but in terms of converting the.
486
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:39.450
Hong Lieu: skeptics you know, but so so yeah I did the choices you picked I mean it's such a.
487
01:05:39.780 --> 01:05:45.120
Hong Lieu: Good good swath of selections and in terms of in terms of the underlying message right and there's unifying kota of.
488
01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:53.430
Hong Lieu: of secret knowledge you feel like you're being led in on a secret, you know my you read one of these books you finished it you feel like you were letting on a secret and you need time to think about it, like you say you need like.
489
01:05:53.700 --> 01:05:58.230
Hong Lieu: I need an hour, just like let my brain kind of reconcile what I what I just witnessed here.
490
01:05:58.470 --> 01:06:07.020
Hong Lieu: Because it feels special feels like you don't let in on a secret and those are those are to me at the best books, the best piece of culture and it's really the best way to learn is that kind of like secret kind of knowledge, so to speak.
491
01:06:07.680 --> 01:06:15.210
Kindred Murillo: mm hmm yeah that's so you know I could go on forever I have books, I read I like books.
492
01:06:16.260 --> 01:06:19.410
Kindred Murillo: You know and and it's good one, you too.
493
01:06:20.910 --> 01:06:29.700
Kindred Murillo: You can talk with somebody that can really give you and you can have a dialogue around for particular pieces out of it, you know.
494
01:06:30.510 --> 01:06:43.500
Kindred Murillo: That to me House like grounded inside, so that it now becomes part of my operating procedures, you know what I mean it's it, I think I use that example about going to chime in and working with this lady is.
495
01:06:44.040 --> 01:06:57.390
Kindred Murillo: Is sort of that really being able to operationalize in through her eyes what the world felt like for her and and then going there and experiencing it from the outside communion and.
496
01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:05.970
Kindred Murillo: yeah and so that's what I tried to do with my life I try to understand deeply.
497
01:07:08.370 --> 01:07:31.530
Kindred Murillo: And I think empathy is is critical to really breaking down barriers and understanding structural racism, because if you can't have empathy in that respect you can't see where does barriers have been built, you know in in language.
498
01:07:32.610 --> 01:07:33.120
Akil Hill: yeah.
499
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:48.240
Kindred Murillo: You know I if I am one of those people that I learned a long time ago man over where it was that you will not hear me word This, to me, is a rough word some.
500
01:07:49.260 --> 01:07:57.840
Kindred Murillo: subordinate I don't use that word in my language I don't use the word superior in my language when i'm referring to.
501
01:07:58.500 --> 01:08:09.840
Kindred Murillo: You know I don't even hardly use the word like, if I have to put into place to say okay yeah I am your boss, but I would you know Those are the kinds of things that that create barriers.
502
01:08:10.770 --> 01:08:16.380
Hong Lieu: I have the word mastered my job description they call me the webmaster and to me it's like the worst I mean I just wanna.
503
01:08:16.590 --> 01:08:21.600
Hong Lieu: I just want to be the Web person can just be the Web guy even i'll even take the gender pronoun and be the Web guy.
504
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:26.640
Hong Lieu: But I just don't feel like, how can you claim to have mastery over anything in this world like you know, like this hey.
505
01:08:26.910 --> 01:08:34.920
Hong Lieu: folks are teaching me something every day about everything on this planet, so I don't I don't think I can claim mastery of anything but as much as I try to disavow follows me around.
506
01:08:35.100 --> 01:08:53.430
Kindred Murillo: And that goes out and think about your House, you know so when people ask me about what's going on in you know, and I go oh you mean the our bedroom I will refer to the master bedroom anymore, because it denotes the old southern.
507
01:08:54.630 --> 01:08:55.500
Kindred Murillo: plantations.
508
01:08:57.120 --> 01:08:58.380
Kindred Murillo: yeah slavery.
509
01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:00.150
Akil Hill: Right yeah yeah.
510
01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:04.650
Kindred Murillo: And you know, and those are the kinds of things you have to like learn and teach and what it's.
511
01:09:04.980 --> 01:09:11.700
Kindred Murillo: A long time to help people understand how the language and we're all learning, I mean we all stumble and I stumble into it every day.
512
01:09:12.060 --> 01:09:25.950
Kindred Murillo: yeah you know, did I mess up by saying this, and I truly sorry sometimes when I say something, and I will call people and apologize, I hope I didn't upset you by what I say.
513
01:09:28.470 --> 01:09:29.010
yeah.
514
01:09:30.450 --> 01:09:33.480
Kindred Murillo: Because we don't know where we stumble sometimes.
515
01:09:34.770 --> 01:09:47.340
Hong Lieu: But being being able to kind of being taken the opportunity to reflect or even think about that counts for so much so, because a lot of us don't care if they stumble and even they do steadily double down so that that's where the death for the hurt really comes in.
516
01:09:47.370 --> 01:09:57.840
Kindred Murillo: So yeah it's gotta be you know we've got to be reflected and understand you know, and you know i'm one of those people I forgive easily.
517
01:09:58.410 --> 01:10:06.960
Kindred Murillo: I forgive probably quicker than anybody, because you know I don't like 66 years old and I, my mind's not quite what it used to be and i'm okay with them.
518
01:10:07.650 --> 01:10:19.320
Kindred Murillo: um well, but you know it's it's hard it's this is hard work, racism is hard work yeah and and that's The bottom line, but it needs to be done.
519
01:10:21.240 --> 01:10:30.690
Hong Lieu: So yes, thank you for all those suggestions I will get them all in the show notes, to the best of my ability and because because yeah sharing that kind of the pieces of culture that kind of move us shape our lives.
520
01:10:31.080 --> 01:10:40.560
Hong Lieu: is one of the goals of this podcast i'll get all that stuff transcribed and hopefully folks will glean some green a little bit of knowledge off the top of all those all those books, thank you very much.
521
01:10:40.620 --> 01:10:43.320
Kindred Murillo: I hope so and actually everybody should read.
522
01:10:44.730 --> 01:10:49.260
Kindred Murillo: Anti racism, how to be an Anti racist I mean everything, I think.
523
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:53.220
Kindred Murillo: Beyond you know it's just.
524
01:10:54.570 --> 01:10:57.000
Kindred Murillo: it's like a handbook for not what to do.
525
01:10:57.780 --> 01:11:00.090
Hong Lieu: MacArthur genius grant winning even my.
526
01:11:00.150 --> 01:11:02.460
Akil Hill: end so yeah even Max candy that's right.
527
01:11:03.420 --> 01:11:05.280
Hong Lieu: Article article what you got.
528
01:11:05.910 --> 01:11:06.840
Akil Hill: Well um.
529
01:11:08.100 --> 01:11:14.160
Akil Hill: I think i've thrown this out before I just kind of revisit there's a couple of books and I got a TV show but.
530
01:11:16.170 --> 01:11:20.370
Akil Hill: I just kind of recently revisit Michael Eric dyson a long time coming.
531
01:11:21.390 --> 01:11:32.160
Akil Hill: And you know just the stories are so moving like how he can just pin that and having conversations with it's basically writing open letters to.
532
01:11:33.240 --> 01:11:37.560
Akil Hill: You know emmett till's one of them Sandra bland and another one.
533
01:11:38.850 --> 01:11:43.800
Akil Hill: People who have been you know basically has lost their lives to racism in this country.
534
01:11:44.730 --> 01:11:55.230
Akil Hill: So I would really like people to kind of really channel that and really just kind of sit in it, because so moving in a lot of ways, so that's one of the books and then.
535
01:11:55.830 --> 01:12:06.840
Akil Hill: The other books, you know my wife is finishing her PhD so she's always buying books around race and, and so I haven't started this book but i've heard that it's really, really good.
536
01:12:08.190 --> 01:12:11.280
Akil Hill: From from other places, I look it's called a.
537
01:12:12.690 --> 01:12:24.030
Akil Hill: convincing Latinos a story of racism in America by Laura he Gomez she's a professor at UCLA UCLA and she's written actually a few other books.
538
01:12:25.080 --> 01:12:42.750
Akil Hill: And this particular book she kind of leans in into you know being Latino and what that means and how you know, are you know our country kind of in some ways, has you know led to.
539
01:12:45.270 --> 01:12:52.650
Akil Hill: Our country has kind of been involved in Latino countries and driving their economies and and covertly and overtly and.
540
01:12:53.250 --> 01:13:01.650
Akil Hill: Creating situations for people dire situations where people that would then come to America and then be labeled, as you know, others so.
541
01:13:02.160 --> 01:13:17.100
Akil Hill: i'm excited to get into that and I just think that that's a you know, a book that you know I wanted to get into that So those are the two books and lastly i'll say really shortly, what I have been really enjoying for my.
542
01:13:18.120 --> 01:13:21.720
Akil Hill: Just pleasure is the remake of the wonder years.
543
01:13:23.730 --> 01:13:40.740
Akil Hill: On ABC it's only two seasons in or two episodes in actually and I think it's Wednesday night it's actually streaming on hulu as well, so you can know if you miss it, you can always streaming on hulu but man, this is like this is like my film good.
544
01:13:42.030 --> 01:13:50.640
Akil Hill: Black boy joy moment where i'm just I sit there and I watch that and I just feel good it just feels good to me, you know I mean it just feels like.
545
01:13:52.260 --> 01:13:53.310
Akil Hill: To see like.
546
01:13:55.680 --> 01:14:01.440
Akil Hill: I mean it says, first of all, I mean most people know cuz the wonder years I was setting the 60s and Alabama.
547
01:14:02.400 --> 01:14:09.540
Akil Hill: And I you know it's just about a black family and what they're in a black childhood and what you just people have gone through.
548
01:14:09.840 --> 01:14:19.320
Akil Hill: During that era of time, but to me it's just I just I just it's good just to watch something that doesn't have any negative connotations or anything else.
549
01:14:19.770 --> 01:14:28.020
Akil Hill: attached to it it's just really feels good, so I would like people to tune in on that, but those are my recommendations, but I mean i'm really loving the wonder years.
550
01:14:28.440 --> 01:14:37.770
Hong Lieu: I I love the original show so much and this reboot it captures all the same, warm as someone who didn't have any idea what the 60s was like at all, no, no concept it's still ever.
551
01:14:38.100 --> 01:14:48.090
Hong Lieu: You know my parents don't tell me stories they don't want to talk about it and stuff so so the original show and then this reboot is really good it doesn't really warm and that's it yeah yeah.
552
01:14:48.210 --> 01:14:48.780
Kindred Murillo: Now.
553
01:14:49.020 --> 01:14:51.210
Kindred Murillo: I have to do that yeah.
554
01:14:53.310 --> 01:15:00.270
Akil Hill: The good thing is only 30 minutes so it's not like you're completely engrossed the all night long it's a half an hour.
555
01:15:00.900 --> 01:15:13.680
Akil Hill: In it just that they've just done an amazing job I think Fred savage is actually the producer of this one or Director, so you just get all those fields of just being like all your childhood.
556
01:15:15.330 --> 01:15:22.350
Akil Hill: You know your parents, I mean, for me it just reminds me of my parents and a lot of ways, so it's definitely worth watching.
557
01:15:23.460 --> 01:15:39.960
Kindred Murillo: Can I ask you, real quick you read the book because i've got it in my queue from Michael Eric dyson and I watched him in a couple of webinars so I followed him the tears, we cannot stop at some white America you read that.
558
01:15:40.170 --> 01:15:47.760
Akil Hill: I haven't read that completely actually have it, I but yeah that's another really, really, really good book by him.
559
01:15:48.180 --> 01:16:01.710
Akil Hill: And he's just his word usage of just the vernacular so i'm like I gotta i'll be a Google stuff and i'm like what does that mean you know just really just a just an intellect you know just and so.
560
01:16:02.430 --> 01:16:08.040
Akil Hill: But uh anything by him is that he's touched is is really, really worth checking out.
561
01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:10.080
So.
562
01:16:11.460 --> 01:16:14.490
Hong Lieu: yeah Nice, thank you for your PICs the speaker kill.
563
01:16:14.970 --> 01:16:15.930
Akil Hill: What do you got for a song.
564
01:16:16.260 --> 01:16:18.150
Hong Lieu: I got two things I got a TV show in a book.
565
01:16:18.270 --> 01:16:25.800
Hong Lieu: So i'm going to go TV show first reservation dogs it's it was originally aired on fx but now it's on do the first season just wrapped up eight episodes.
566
01:16:26.610 --> 01:16:33.630
Hong Lieu: Tyco whitey who is you know did door and what we do in the shadows he's he's big he's not really well known now but he's you know from New Zealand originally i'd first.
567
01:16:34.110 --> 01:16:41.190
Hong Lieu: heard him from flight of the conchords you know the old the old show but yeah he because he because it does marvel movie and stuff he's pretty well known, but he co produced this show.
568
01:16:42.180 --> 01:16:50.610
Hong Lieu: Actually, with this guy named sterling harjo who's indigenous person from America begin tiger whities from New Zealand, but he's married a sense so he's indigenous Zealand.
569
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:52.260
Akil Hill: He produced the show.
570
01:16:52.470 --> 01:17:02.580
Hong Lieu: About 14 to live on a reservation in Oklahoma so it's called reservation dogs and it's just about kind of growing up on a reservation Oklahoma and the first episode they're.
571
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:09.000
Hong Lieu: Trying to you know they they steal a chip truck because they're trying to save money to go to California and then from there, it kind of just.
572
01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:14.640
Hong Lieu: keeps going to why they want to go to California and the whole series the whole season is wrapped around that but.
573
01:17:15.060 --> 01:17:24.390
Hong Lieu: it's just I mean it's billed as a comedy and there are some funny parts, but it's just a really kind of it's really poignant because you know it's got a mostly indigenous cast it's got.
574
01:17:24.630 --> 01:17:35.130
Hong Lieu: You know it, because the these you can tell the writers and directors and everyone is kind of steeped in the culture, they really kind of kind of let it all out and show things as they are, I mean it's it's a.
575
01:17:35.580 --> 01:17:42.330
Hong Lieu: it's a really kind of Nice kind of slice of life into what what that kind of life is like because I really have no idea myself whenever I.
576
01:17:42.600 --> 01:17:48.480
Hong Lieu: visit reservations have always coming as an outsider i'm always you know not i'm not i'm not kind of in that in that life.
577
01:17:48.870 --> 01:17:55.050
Hong Lieu: And just seeing what this kind of slice of life looks like I mean they add some Community touches to it, but there are some really kind of brutal.
578
01:17:55.470 --> 01:18:04.170
Hong Lieu: And also poignant moments, and then also just like start kind of realization that terms of what their day to day life is like there's one, the second episode, you know when the kids get in a fight, and he has to go to.
579
01:18:04.470 --> 01:18:13.020
Hong Lieu: To get medical care at the at the reservation health clinic and just seeing what that is like and waiting in line stay there all day and just it's just a really great show and.
580
01:18:13.590 --> 01:18:20.490
Hong Lieu: You can tell it really comes from come from a good place you know all the folks that have worked on the show they really they really imbued with that sense of.
581
01:18:20.730 --> 01:18:25.320
Hong Lieu: You know, they need to put on, there are some native hip hop artists, you know indigenous hip hop artists on that show.
582
01:18:25.650 --> 01:18:29.190
Hong Lieu: You know the music is is is well curated in terms of the musical selections they have.
583
01:18:29.610 --> 01:18:36.270
Hong Lieu: I mean they they intersperse it with some of the language, some of the you know indigenous language for the lakota tribes and.
584
01:18:36.660 --> 01:18:42.030
Hong Lieu: And they really do make a point to kind of stay true to kind of what they're what they're conveying.
585
01:18:42.540 --> 01:18:50.010
Hong Lieu: And, and then they kind of it's really what it's really worth watching eight episodes now long season season two is on its way but won't be out till next year and.
586
01:18:50.460 --> 01:19:01.320
Hong Lieu: Get reservation dogs my book in you know honor Hispanic heritage month I wanted to pick a book that was kind of close to me, as I was growing up, so I did always running by Luis Rodriguez.
587
01:19:02.940 --> 01:19:06.750
Hong Lieu: It came out in 96 and a lot of folks read it now in high school because it's one of those like.
588
01:19:07.140 --> 01:19:17.040
Hong Lieu: You know, like lesson books about gang life and stuff I read it, because you know when I ready to just come out and you read in high school because it was a local author he made he made he made good quote Unquote.
589
01:19:17.610 --> 01:19:29.280
Hong Lieu: And for me it was it was a as someone who grew up in the area now he went to market high school, which is, I didn't go to mark up high school, but I lived a block from our couple high school, so I kind of I knew the area that he grew up in I knew the area.
590
01:19:29.550 --> 01:19:35.790
Hong Lieu: But hit the always running takes place, you know, like late 70s early 80s kind of kind of, so to speak, it kind of.
591
01:19:36.270 --> 01:19:43.050
Hong Lieu: Does it kind of stops right when my my whole generation of people that came from Vietnam, the boat the boat person migration of the early 80s.
592
01:19:43.620 --> 01:19:51.450
Hong Lieu: The book kind of stops right when we come in So for me, it was a nice kind of like it was that it did have those lessons about you know finding good mentors.
593
01:19:51.780 --> 01:19:59.850
Hong Lieu: about trying to stay above the gang life about about you know about about the neighbor I grew up in, but it was really just more just to give me a good idea with neighbor was like before I showed up because.
594
01:20:00.300 --> 01:20:08.580
Hong Lieu: I mean for us, we only knew the neighbor from from the point we were there on so I so some of the things he touches on I still saw like the gangs that he mentioned.
595
01:20:09.060 --> 01:20:16.380
Hong Lieu: You know lo MAS hundreds of they were still very prominent in the neighborhood when I when I showed up, but in terms of just the dynamics and high school where he you know he.
596
01:20:16.770 --> 01:20:24.810
Hong Lieu: He was getting into fights a lot with with with white classmates there was that racial tension was was between you know Latino Latina and white folks.
597
01:20:25.440 --> 01:20:39.630
Hong Lieu: Whereas when I you know, by the time we you know we came of age we had added that third pillar, where it was Latino Latina gangs Asian gangs and white gangs, you know, so it was like so seeing that evolution and it, for me it was more just like more just.
598
01:20:40.890 --> 01:20:49.140
Hong Lieu: A sociological kind of understanding of what the area was like, for we showed up, but it was but, but the messages, there are always very powerful in terms of.
599
01:20:49.620 --> 01:21:01.230
Hong Lieu: He was on the wrong track and he was not in a good place and he needed someone to help get them out, and he found that in this mentor you know chanted ramirez the mentor that appears new, then the story that kind of shows him.
600
01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:07.050
Hong Lieu: You know that there are other ways out of this and and as someone who you know la is a big areas when you know.
601
01:21:07.830 --> 01:21:14.760
Hong Lieu: metropolitan wonders of the world, but my mind was very la centric and until I went to cal poly to go to college like I didn't know.
602
01:21:15.180 --> 01:21:19.200
Hong Lieu: That there was that I could have a different kind of mindset like you know i'd la brain.
603
01:21:19.590 --> 01:21:25.200
Hong Lieu: And it wasn't till I came up and got central coast brain and now I have south coast brain that I had any idea that it could be different.
604
01:21:25.530 --> 01:21:36.720
Hong Lieu: You know, like I didn't even know what different was because because, even when I would go when I went to when I first went to school, I was like well you know we know we talked about i'm just me, and it was over time that I realized like no like you, are kind of a piece, you were just.
605
01:21:37.770 --> 01:21:44.310
Hong Lieu: It was too, I was to kind of yet I was two in the mix and I needed that broadening and that's that's kind of what looser he gets kind of.
606
01:21:44.610 --> 01:21:52.620
Hong Lieu: First kind of planted that seed was like there are ways around it, because he he doesn't have traveling and moving you know going into across state lines and stuff and doing all these things.
607
01:21:52.950 --> 01:21:59.850
Hong Lieu: And it kind of takes that to get them out and then he comes back and he meets a gang Member at the end of the book and, yes, I computation where he you know the he finds him, but the.
608
01:22:00.270 --> 01:22:07.680
Hong Lieu: You know, in that, in that place and everything like that so but yeah it's classic at this point well deserved place my wife's dad.
609
01:22:08.010 --> 01:22:15.120
Hong Lieu: runs a nonprofit in the antelope valley and it's done some work with loose Rodriguez you know within the past 510 years or so, so he's still in the Community doing work like he's.
610
01:22:15.210 --> 01:22:19.320
Hong Lieu: A great person, and so, but yeah it's at this point the classic but, at the time.
611
01:22:19.590 --> 01:22:29.100
Hong Lieu: When I read it, it was fresh and it was still it still had that hit still hit me like that, when it came out, it was it was just yeah always running by Lewis Rodriguez and reservation dogs i'll put i'll put links in the show notes.
612
01:22:30.090 --> 01:22:31.680
Kindred Murillo: What part of lunch you grew up in.
613
01:22:31.890 --> 01:22:37.020
Hong Lieu: East la well, I mean I call it a delay, but it's technically the Western San Gabriel valley it's like right next East la.
614
01:22:37.350 --> 01:22:43.050
Hong Lieu: But you know because, because in southern California there no borders, like you drive and you just cross town crosstown crosstown.
615
01:22:43.320 --> 01:22:50.520
Hong Lieu: Like in northern California, you can kind of get a little bit of a buffer between cities, so you don't know in you know in my area when you're driving gone from.
616
01:22:51.000 --> 01:23:02.430
Hong Lieu: Monterey park to else in Reno to East la just kind of is this my lunch, you know and that's and that's partly where my brain comes from because I knew I was like I I have such a wide swath of area.
617
01:23:02.790 --> 01:23:08.790
Hong Lieu: I, we have the largest concentration of Korean folks outside of Korea, Lars construct of Chinese folks outside of travelers countries have this outside of this.
618
01:23:09.060 --> 01:23:17.250
Hong Lieu: But what do I need to know about other other ways of living, when I have it all here, I have this melting pot here I didn't realize how kind of insular that thinking could still be.
619
01:23:17.790 --> 01:23:32.340
Hong Lieu: You know, because of the way the streets are you know it's just an issue is like survivalism narrows your focus, you know, like and so, once you once you get past that first level survivalism really does kind of open the the depth and breadth of of life, you know kind of so.
620
01:23:33.150 --> 01:23:36.150
Kindred Murillo: that's a worthwhile quote there's violence in.
621
01:23:36.420 --> 01:23:37.650
Kindred Murillo: Europe is.
622
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:42.420
Kindred Murillo: Because I think yeah because my husband used to teach at ease till I.
623
01:23:43.020 --> 01:23:44.220
Hong Lieu: Oh yeah he lack.
624
01:23:44.310 --> 01:23:45.240
Kindred Murillo: That and that technically.
625
01:23:45.360 --> 01:23:53.790
Hong Lieu: That tentatively is in Monterey Park, if you look at the address it says Monterey park California, but it is East la so so I grew up in Monterey park and hambro.
626
01:23:54.090 --> 01:24:01.620
Hong Lieu: So that whole area and East la college that area, specifically is really nice because they also have that carmelita that God so facility was over by there, so I always go by there and smell like.
627
01:24:01.920 --> 01:24:08.880
Hong Lieu: trudy so being made and you lack and and the other tower records over there, back in the day, so it was like a cultural hub like yeah.
628
01:24:09.450 --> 01:24:19.590
Kindred Murillo: yeah I used to have business offices, I spent a lot of time in La because I worked for southern California Edison my offices all over Santa fe springs on camera all.
629
01:24:19.830 --> 01:24:21.240
Hong Lieu: Real rosemead you got the wrong.
630
01:24:21.240 --> 01:24:22.140
Hong Lieu: Guy yeah but.
631
01:24:23.430 --> 01:24:24.330
Kindred Murillo: Today, you know.
632
01:24:24.840 --> 01:24:33.150
Kindred Murillo: My husband's family's out of pasadena so you know because he was racing North pasadena which was very culturally diverse his.
633
01:24:33.180 --> 01:24:33.720
Hong Lieu: Oh yeah.
634
01:24:33.900 --> 01:24:35.220
Kindred Murillo: Like awesome.
635
01:24:36.870 --> 01:24:47.070
Kindred Murillo: You know i'm serious it was you know, he was raised with his uncle and he was just everybody every ethnicity every language, it was just.
636
01:24:47.310 --> 01:24:56.400
Hong Lieu: And they keep it real out there that they'll try to tell you, like passing is the home of the Rose parade but that some parts of North pasadena yeah I mean they keep it real out there, though they'll let you know so in terms of that street life.
637
01:24:56.790 --> 01:25:00.090
Hong Lieu: You see it, whether you're in it or not, you at least know the rules of the game.
638
01:25:00.240 --> 01:25:01.800
Hong Lieu: You know that's how I tell people all the time, like.
639
01:25:01.980 --> 01:25:11.970
Hong Lieu: Look at me i'm not i'm not trying to pass some gang Member in my past that that's not me but do I know how things work in the streets absolutely because of because of my surroundings, where I grew up just just how it goes, you know.
640
01:25:12.210 --> 01:25:13.380
No other way, Michael.
641
01:25:15.060 --> 01:25:15.420
Hong Lieu: yeah.
642
01:25:15.750 --> 01:25:16.320
yeah.
643
01:25:18.690 --> 01:25:25.080
Kindred Murillo: And you know it's like I know and he takes me back, we take me back there to visit we even grow, we were up there, the other day to visit.
644
01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:27.630
Kindred Murillo: A Lewis.
645
01:25:29.040 --> 01:25:40.200
Kindred Murillo: past two years ago and we went up to see his headstone and pay our respects and we you know can tell all the stories about you know your supply happen over here, as you know, and.
646
01:25:41.100 --> 01:25:53.970
Kindred Murillo: You know I just every Member in this really hit me this telling me about when I think it was the Watts riots were coming down and he was saying that his height, you went to john your high school.
647
01:25:54.300 --> 01:25:54.810
Hong Lieu: Oh yeah.
648
01:25:55.170 --> 01:25:56.100
Hong Lieu: how's the weather john muir.
649
01:25:56.820 --> 01:25:57.960
Kindred Murillo: So he was like.
650
01:25:58.230 --> 01:26:05.700
Kindred Murillo: What was so fascinating to me was is they kind of banded together and they said, we are not, and let us tears apart.
651
01:26:06.180 --> 01:26:19.500
Kindred Murillo: And because they were so diverse at the high school that it was like no we're not going to do this piece we're going to stay together and we're not going to participate in hating each other.
652
01:26:19.890 --> 01:26:40.170
Kindred Murillo: And I mean I was just taken back by it, because i've seen so many other stances, you know where we go white vs brown or brown versus black or whatever it comes out in looks like to just say wait a minute we're human and we're going to work together to make sure that we don't do this.
653
01:26:41.310 --> 01:26:50.610
Hong Lieu: And I feel like a part of it is is we had people have no choice I me, I mean if I had a choice I went to grow up the way I grew up, but because I did i'm a lot better for it.
654
01:26:50.970 --> 01:26:58.440
Hong Lieu: So, but, but you can't force a lack of choice on somebody because that's like the worst thing you do somebody so that's that's the paradox in my mind, sometimes where it's like.
655
01:26:58.770 --> 01:27:06.810
Hong Lieu: How do I recreate my life experiences about forcing them on somebody because, if I force in my life experience on someone they would hate me forever because there's, no, no one deserves to go through that.
656
01:27:07.230 --> 01:27:13.380
Hong Lieu: You know unwilling to like but I had no choice, it was my only my only route, you know day in, day out, was to survive.
657
01:27:13.830 --> 01:27:24.390
Hong Lieu: and keep going and figure out a way to get through, and you can't I mean you can't force anybody, how do I bridge that gap with folks that don't understand that element of you know you just can't yeah.
658
01:27:25.020 --> 01:27:34.020
Kindred Murillo: And what I love your quote because that whole phrase you have no choice you're born and you have to live through it.
659
01:27:35.820 --> 01:27:36.900
Kindred Murillo: yeah absolutely.
660
01:27:37.530 --> 01:27:39.150
Kindred Murillo: wow you both are.
661
01:27:40.500 --> 01:27:41.550
Kindred Murillo: awesome to talk to.
662
01:27:42.450 --> 01:27:46.560
Hong Lieu: me oh Thank you so much, I know we've kept you a little after our meeting time so.
663
01:27:47.190 --> 01:27:49.290
Akil Hill: yeah We appreciate you taking the time.
664
01:27:49.530 --> 01:27:51.090
Hong Lieu: And and dropping knowledge in us and.
665
01:27:51.090 --> 01:27:52.080
Hong Lieu: Having this conversation.
666
01:27:52.350 --> 01:28:01.800
Hong Lieu: Before we say goodbye before we say goodbye to the episodes or anything else you want to highlight your plug quote unquote plug or mentioned about what you're doing or what remaining going on anything you want to mention before we say goodbye.
667
01:28:02.940 --> 01:28:13.710
Kindred Murillo: No, I think, no, this has been fun because it's engaging you're making me think about things I need to think about over here and i'm and I guess the thing I will tell you.
668
01:28:14.580 --> 01:28:20.010
Kindred Murillo: At the end of the interview i'm kind of an introverted personality type or I have, I hear things.
669
01:28:20.550 --> 01:28:30.600
Kindred Murillo: about it before I can actually come out with something that I think is worth listening to and so having this conversation with you now, I will take a lot of what I heard.
670
01:28:31.050 --> 01:28:42.510
Kindred Murillo: from you, and some of your recommendations and follow up and think about those and reflect on them, so thank you for for being so like forthcoming with who you are.
671
01:28:43.800 --> 01:28:48.450
Hong Lieu: That that's the culture in a nutshell, you know, like that's that's that's what we're that's what we're trying to spread here and that's.
672
01:28:48.660 --> 01:28:55.800
Hong Lieu: And that's what we're kind of showing in terms of the depth and breadth and wealth NSPCC possesses in terms of the people that work here the students that study here.
673
01:28:56.040 --> 01:29:05.760
Hong Lieu: The faculty that teach here there's so much culture and so much to be had if we're willing to kind of listen and be open to taking suggestions you know because that's that's the extra piece.
674
01:29:06.030 --> 01:29:15.270
Hong Lieu: You know, is taking that in and going back to somebody like oh I gotta check that out that was amazing yeah let's let's talk about or something talk about her over some food, but talking about over yeah yeah absolutely.
675
01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:16.290
Akil Hill: yeah or just.
676
01:29:16.320 --> 01:29:30.570
Akil Hill: You know, also the peace to you know just seeing you know, one of your coworker and being like hey I was listening to the show I didn't know you're into this now like when you see Z you're gonna have a conversation about that chili and so that's the whole that's the hope.
677
01:29:31.590 --> 01:29:42.360
Akil Hill: And the drive of the podcast is to bring the Co workers together and and just to realize to understand that we have more in common than what we think we may have in common, so.
678
01:29:43.260 --> 01:29:56.790
Akil Hill: I just wanted to give a real quick before I forget a special shout out to our D SPS services and the recent passing of Janet Janet was an amazing counselor who served the SPS.
679
01:29:57.660 --> 01:30:11.370
Akil Hill: I have really fond memories of her advocating for students and I just wanted to take a moment and just say that you know that she's you know touched me personally in a lot of ways and and so.
680
01:30:12.450 --> 01:30:15.120
Akil Hill: I just wanted to take a moment and don't want to end the show without.
681
01:30:16.380 --> 01:30:23.460
Akil Hill: knowledge in her presence and her all of her hard work that she has continued to instill and.
682
01:30:24.570 --> 01:30:30.270
Akil Hill: In our students and so i'm just wanting to say you know just want to take a moment and honor that.
683
01:30:31.500 --> 01:30:33.900
Hong Lieu: Thank you, kill yeah yeah I worked with Janet.
684
01:30:35.310 --> 01:30:43.740
Hong Lieu: website and other things and hiring committee with her and she was always the smartest person in the room, always always knew kind of the right path to get to get to the right decision and.
685
01:30:45.450 --> 01:30:56.580
Akil Hill: Yes, she was small in stature but boy she came with it like I remember, I used to see her like a willing to share like a cart she would always will up and.
686
01:30:57.270 --> 01:31:09.090
Akil Hill: I just would always get the just a kick out of that i'm like she's rolling that card in every single morning, but when she came to work she came to work so just just just a honor to have been able to.
687
01:31:10.110 --> 01:31:10.800
Akil Hill: get to know her.
688
01:31:11.730 --> 01:31:13.410
Hong Lieu: And an honor to be challenged by air, because you.
689
01:31:13.440 --> 01:31:15.030
Hong Lieu: Talk about conflict that makes you smarter.
690
01:31:15.240 --> 01:31:15.660
Hong Lieu: Yes.
691
01:31:15.690 --> 01:31:19.260
Hong Lieu: Having a conversation with Janet hose and going through you see that.
692
01:31:19.290 --> 01:31:22.410
Hong Lieu: Yes, yeah definitely we're a better person, on the other side.
693
01:31:22.470 --> 01:31:24.180
Kindred Murillo: Absolutely yeah wow.
694
01:31:24.210 --> 01:31:26.250
Akil Hill: yeah so so.
695
01:31:27.180 --> 01:31:27.600
Hong Lieu: Thank you.
696
01:31:27.660 --> 01:31:28.620
Akil Hill: Here yeah.
697
01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:31.020
Hong Lieu: And, and thank you, Dr Murillo again, thank you for.
698
01:31:31.410 --> 01:31:40.320
Hong Lieu: Showing it was an honor to have you on and we're glad we're glad you're here SPC me hope you hope you have a safer for for as long as you'd like.
699
01:31:42.000 --> 01:31:43.470
Kindred Murillo: Until you run me out right now.
700
01:31:43.710 --> 01:31:44.580
Hong Lieu: No one's around.
701
01:31:44.610 --> 01:31:49.620
Hong Lieu: I was running you after talking to you for this I don't know what do you find yourself out of your own volition so.
702
01:31:49.620 --> 01:31:55.410
Hong Lieu: yeah you stay of all you like make sure, make sure you do something, you know do what you gotta do and we'll be here for it.
703
01:31:55.890 --> 01:32:01.890
Kindred Murillo: Well, thank you and I will, and I appreciate you and let's get some stuff done.
704
01:32:02.310 --> 01:32:05.250
Hong Lieu: All right, and and we'll see you next time y'all take care and.
705
01:32:05.250 --> 01:32:06.150
Akil Hill: Thanks for tuning in yeah.
706
01:32:06.300 --> 01:32:08.010
Hong Lieu: yeah this was Vaquero Voices bye bye.