SBCC Vaquero Voices

Episode 48 - Jing Liu

Episode Summary

Akil and Hong welcome Jing Liu to the show! Jing is the new SBCC Director of International Programs, and the trio discuss how things are going for her so far; from there, Jing breaks down her path to SBCC from China to Florida to Santa Barbara, goes over her love of "brothy noodles" in "Good Eatin'," and blesses "Higher Learning" with a conversation on Matthew Desmond's new book Poverty, By America.

Episode Notes

Mentioned in this episode:

SBCC International Students - https://www.sbcc.edu/international/

Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

Florence, Italy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence

Gap Year - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_year

SBCC Study Abroad - https://www.sbcc.edu/studyabroad/

FOMO - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_missing_out

Mark Twain quote about travel - https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/6551286-the-innocents-abroad-roughing-it

Trevor Noah quote about travel - https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10330273-traveling-is-the-antidote-to-ignorance

Pho - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pho

Braised Beef Noodle Soup - https://thewoksoflife.com/taiwanese-beef-noodle-soup-instant-pot/

Udon - https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1019279-make-it-your-own-udon-noodle-soup

Ramen - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramen

Noodle CIty - https://noodlecitygoleta.com/

SB Pho - https://sbpho.com/

Nikka Ramen - https://nikkaramen.com/

Meun Fan - https://meunfanthaicafe.com/

Su’s Bowl - https://order.online/store/su's-bowl-isla-vista-873012/?hideModal=true&pickup=true

Uniboil - https://order.online/store/uniboil-goleta-728114/?hideModal=true&pickup=true

Tasty China Ventura - https://www.tastychinaventura.com/

Xiao Long Bao (soup dumplings) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaolongbao

Sheng Jian Bao - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shengjian_mantou

Taiwanese Shaved Ice - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tshuah-ping

Kang Kang Food Court - https://kangkangfoodcourtca.com/

eLoong - https://www.eloongdumplingswv.com/

Mulberry-Lakeland, Florida - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry,_Florida

Phamous Cafe - https://www.yelp.com/biz/phamous-cafe-goleta

Sazon Latino - https://sazonlatinorestaurante.com/

Indy Writeup - https://www.independent.com/2023/10/14/family-vibes-and-sunny-smiles-at-sazon-latino-restaurant/

Santa Barbara Pizza House - https://www.sbpizzahouse.com/

Little Caesar’s Pizza - https://ktla.com/news/local-news/santa-barbaras-most-recommended-restaurant-is-a-little-caesars-heres-why/

Detroit-style pizza - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit-style_pizza

Corner Tap - https://www.sbcornertap.com/

Soul BItes - https://soulbitesrestaurants.com/

Blenders - https://www.drinkblenders.com/

Dole Whip - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dole_Whip

Poverty, By America by Matthew Desmond - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/675683/poverty-by-america-by-matthew-desmond/

Evicted - Poverty and Profit in the American CIty by Matthew Desmond - https://evictedbook.com/

NPR segment on Poverty, By America - https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1164275807

SBCC Basic Needs Center - https://www.sbcc.edu/equity/basic-needs-programs/index.php

Scavenger’s Reign - https://www.max.com/shows/scavengers-reign/50c8ce6d-088c-42d9-9147-d1b19b1289d4

Moebius - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Giraud

Alexander Jodorowsky - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Jodorowsky

L’Incal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incal

Moebius Redux: Jodorowsky’s Dune - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fv4F8HasKA

Madwoman of the Sacred Heart - https://www.humanoids.com/book/456

The World of Edena - https://www.darkhorse.com/Books/30-300/Moebius-Library-The-World-of-Edena-HC

Scavenger’s Reign original short - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TRzemJbUsw

AAPI Mural on Campus - https://www.sbcc.edu/newsandevents/pressreleases/2023-10-13-SBCC-Unveils-New-Mural-Celebrating-AAPI-Plus-Heritage.php

Twin Walls Mural Company - https://www.twinwallsmuralcompany.com/

Episode Transcription

Captions Provided by Zoom

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Hong Lieu: Hello and welcome to another episode of SBCC Vaquero Voices - a podcast highlighting the unique voices that comprise our campus culture, and how we're all working together to serve our students and the community at large.

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Akil Hill: As usual, I'm joined by Co. Host, Akil Hill.

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Hong Lieu: and today we are honored to welcome Jing Liu to the show. Welcome jing, hey, hey? Thank you so much. Jing, ying, or is it? You know?

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Jing Liu: Okay? And you are the director of international programs here, Sbcc

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Hong Lieu: and and just I mean, not new new to the position. But you're you're just starting, you know. You've been here a few months. Now, I think.

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Akil Hill: yeah, pretty new. Sorry. August one. So it feels. Yeah, 3 months in right? A full quarter. So are you? Are you getting kind of your sea legs underneath you getting a feel for the program, and I mean, everything's kind of

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Hong Lieu: coming along. I mean false, false semester is always a busy time for the program. But how? How do you? How have you felt getting, you know, integrated in the program? And and and what do you think? How do you feel that the program's going?

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Jing Liu: Yeah, I feel. I mean, in general, I feel like I have a pretty good sense of things. I feel like

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Jing Liu: that first year. You always feel new, right like every day something comes up like, Oh, I haven't encountered this before. Let me go ask somebody who knows the answer. I think it takes at least the whole a full cycle and season to to really feel.

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Jing Liu: I don't know, embedded. We're confident about about my answers, but definitely, I feel like I have a sense of things. And

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Jing Liu: I feel like I was fortunate to start when I did before the students and and semester started a couple of weeks of just kind of laying low and learning

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Jing Liu: about different yeah, constituents, contacts. And then, when the the semester started, definitely felt different. Right? Like more energized. All of a sudden meetings, more meetings popped up, more engagements popped up. So yeah, it's been really good, and I've had some recruitment travel as well. So 3 months. But I mean almost a month of that. I was away from the office. Like 3 weeks of that was away traveling so.

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Hong Lieu: And you touched on an important piece there the the institution knowledge of having someone that you can ask about things, cause there's there's times where you don't not sure who to ask, and then you have to kind of figure that out. But once you have like that core network, you can go from there and then kind of figure out. You know the label, and, so to speak. I feel like I'm a unique unfortunate position, right like the person that I report to was in this position. And she's

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terrific to work with. So I can always go to her, and my colleagues here and my team have a lot of institutional knowledge as well. So like on

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Jing Liu: I'm just surrounded by people who who know a lot that's a good position to be in.

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Hong Lieu: and and a couple of episodes ago we had Miguel on the show. He was. He was your international ambassador, and now he's moved over to the basic needs. But he did touch on some of the pieces of the program and it and it did kind of really highlight. How important the international program is to the kind of campus culture here at Sbcc in terms of providing that you know the a rich kind of

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Hong Lieu: all these viewpoints come in all these kind of cultures coming in and the interaction between the students. It's it's really cool to see when you know, like the the diversity on the campus, how how much that is fleshed out from our international students. Ha! Have you noticed in in terms of them coming in for the fall. As it is, it kind of normalizing, as well, you know, we're kind of

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Hong Lieu: still. Slowly, you know, coming, we're we're pretty. We're out of the pandemic. But we're just kind of

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Jing Liu: it's kind of winding back into whatever the new normal is. Our students coming in kind of ready to go? Or is it still a lot of

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Jing Liu: pieces, you know, working, working them into kind of getting getting ready for school and everything else. Right? Yeah. I think a couple of pieces for that answer. Maybe like, I feel like, I mean, this is all I've know. I didn't know Sbcc international in 2,01617. Right? So but my understanding is, numbers are so. I mean the lowest that they've been. So we're intentional about trying to grow those numbers and

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Jing Liu: bring more intentional students on campus and sort of diversify that population as well.

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So that's the goal in the office, and I think

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Jing Liu: that being said, the students who come in are pretty prepared like are

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Jing Liu: My team and the office have done some things to make that transition process smoother for them. In terms of like enrollment getting that information they need before they come. So and this the first week of a fall or the welcome week was, I think, evidence of that, like. Students came in seemingly pretty well prepared. There were fewer questions, and our office was

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Jing Liu: not. I mean, they came in informed right? They weren't like swarmed by very basic questions. So that's always a good sign, and a good foundation to have. As we're trying to grow numbers hopefully, we'll just have a bigger group of students who come in well prepared.

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Jing Liu: Yeah.

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Hong Lieu: Yeah. Cause you know for preparation. I mean, there's there, I guess I guess there's no way to. Really, truly, I mean not to say that students before the pandemic were any more prepared because they probably weren't. But it's just yeah. Everyone's gonna it's just a matter of

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Hong Lieu: I yeah, I guess I

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Hong Lieu: I definitely will edit this later. But it's it's yeah. The students.

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Hong Lieu: I mean.

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Jing Liu: yeah, Richard, go for it. Yeah.

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Jing Liu: I feel like it's such a complex

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Jing Liu: student population, right? Because you have the the cross-cultural elements. You're coming to a a cultural setting, a pedagogy that you're not accustomed to. And then there's also the pandemic, which is a huge

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Jing Liu: impact on just student development in general. And I'm assuming a lot of the students in the past 3 years haven't had a lot of just personal face to face engagement as well. So it's just being cognizant of that, like a lot of things happening for them. And culture shock as well, right? So just adjusting. And we want to be here and be as supportive as as possible.

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Hong Lieu: Yeah, I guess that was a point I was. I was gonna try to make in terms of preparation. I mean, I've never even moved out of the State of California, so I couldn't imagine moving internationally, or even even like you moving from East Coast to West coast. I mean, there's just so much involved with that, I mean, how how do you and your team even know how to prepare

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Hong Lieu: or how I mean you, I mean, I guess you know, to expect the unexpected, and to be able to pivot really rapidly. Just whatever they need. You're there for them. But in terms of you're the net that you cast. How do you kind of make sure that it has that coverage, and I mean it. It kind of can't, you know? Full. But you know, yeah, that's a great yeah, a great question.

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Jing Liu: How do you be there for them in in different ways. I think.

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Jing Liu: There, there are layers. Right? So the very basic foundational layer you tell them about all the resources are offered at university. So you kind of show them the lay of the land. There's a Pd. Cost that. My colleagues teach as well right that gives them in depth exposure, and and takes them on a tour of campus and and connects them personally to different resources. So I think that's the very basic layer, right? And then

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Jing Liu: it's almost like Maslow's hierarchy, hierarchy of needs like you have your basics. And now now what and each student has individual, I think, challenges, and and how they thrive. So we just try to be I think Miguel said this as well, like a home away from home so, and having a very

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Jing Liu: humble approach to that like, we don't know where you're coming from. Tell us what your experience is, and we'll try to try to help you. So I think just being accessible. I is

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another layer of that.

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Akil Hill: you know. I used to. I used to actually process back in the day. I'm a date myself. But I used to process international applications. We

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Akil Hill: not pre Internet, but

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Akil Hill: pre international students office or international office having its own website. And so it was always I was always amazed by one at the at. I think at the time it was probably at the height or the peak of international enrollment, and just seeing just so much diversity, and where all these students are coming from. And also actually being able to realize how much the global economy impacts our student enrollment.

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Akil Hill: So like at times when the economy was really robust and and and Japan. The numbers of students were higher and then, after the Japan, they kind of shifted, and, you know, moved to kind of like China, and there was like a lot of students enrollment. So it was always coming

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Akil Hill: interesting to kind of track engage that. And then I always knew with the suites that you know, their government is really progressive and and and pace for a lot of their schooling. And I just, I just wanna say, like, I'm so appreciative of your office for so many different ways, because it really is like Hong just alluded to it, like he's like, Look, I've never even moved. Outside of the State of California. It's gives our students at Sbcc an opportunity to

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Akil Hill: having enriching enriched conversations and

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Akil Hill: form bonds with students that they normally wouldn't maybe necessarily do I know a couple of students in particular, like our student workers at here, and admissions. They made friends with some international students. And you know, they basically went and stayed with their family over winter break and in their countries. And it's just that type of an enrichment that the International office brings to our campus. Is super important.

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Jing Liu: Yeah, no, absolutely and I mean, II talk about the international student advisors here, and they do their fair share of meeting with students, but also shout out to like the ambassadors and any resources on campus and just organic connections right where international students are able to feel

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Jing Liu: a little bit of I don't know connection or rootedness to the community like that's so important.

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Jing Liu: And you touched on. Yeah, it's kind of external factors that influence international enrollment as well like we can try our best to to intentionally market and recruit and and that's what we are doing. But they're also like you talked about currency fluctuations with Japan. It just made it really

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Jing Liu: cost prohibitive in some cases for them to to come here or we used to have a pretty robust, I think, resilient population, because there was a government initiative that was funding things, and that disappeared right? So not just Scc's, but other colleges and universities saw a huge decrease in

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Jing Liu: in Brazilian students, and then geopolitical reasons as well.

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Jing Liu: I mean China and us aren't on the the the smoothest of terms right now and then. Like. When I go visit. There's just I mean the first questions about safety, right? And how the Us. Is portrayed in the media. And I mean not just portray. But you can imagine how that's just amplified.

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Jing Liu: and recently with, you know, Lewiston and and Unc. And like, these things are top of mind for for students and families in particular. So just

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a lot of external forces that are whether we're

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Jing Liu: not fighting against but just working with. Yeah.

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Hong Lieu: Yeah. And and it does. It does go to show in terms of

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Hong Lieu: once they get here, it'll be it'll be okay. But it's just the fact, you know, trying to con convince them and and tell them it's it's a good place to go. And it definitely is because, like you said, these these are trends that are are

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Hong Lieu: nationwide. For you know in education in general, it's not an S. It's not an Sbcc problem. It's a, you know. It's probably a world wide thing in terms of overall kind of enrollment and things that these things kind of ebb and flow together. But

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Hong Lieu: we're doing the best we can, and we'll do we can in terms of for students that are curious and interested. What's the best place to start? Is it the website? Or there are other resources you wanna recommend for students that might be interested in enrolling the Spcc internationally or

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Jing Liu: good question. I think, for for

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Jing Liu: us, like specifically Sbcc, just got our website, edu slash international right? And there's information there. There's an interest form that students can fill out. We're also trying to, I think, for other markets, establish presence in

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Jing Liu: like channels of communication. They're they're familiar to students. So, for example, like, we chat

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Jing Liu: in China, and just trying to have more more presence that way instead of the multiple steps and might potentially take for students to to be engaged. But for now I mean, the the website is always a good resource.

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Hong Lieu: and I will. And I would definitely put all the info in the show notes and

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Hong Lieu: segway into our next section. What brought you Sbcc. Jing, if you would like to kind of walk through your path of starting at whatever point you'd like, and just

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Jing Liu: and how you got here. Oh, man. Yeah, which point? I could start like in the womb. I'll take us through the many decades very quickly. But I was born China

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Jing Liu: and immigrated to us. When I was close to 9 so, and raised in, mostly in Florida.

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Jing Liu: so personally, being a product of a bicultural upbringing right, and then went off to school, studied abroad. And I graduated a semester early, sort of

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Jing Liu: unbeknownst to me kind of surprised me, II think, towards like November of my senior year, I was like, Oh, wait a minute, II have everything I need to graduate. And do I wanna pay tuition for additional semester. So I finished in December, and because of that was, I mean, absolutely not Job searching or have my future in mind. I was a psych Major, which

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Jing Liu: prepares you for nothing and everything.

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Jing Liu: And so serendipitously had a opportunity to teach in in China, for, like a Ga. A gap year if you will. and that experience. It was a cross cultural, like a Us. Chinese joint

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branch campus, and that kind of

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Jing Liu: ignited my interest in in international education. So I would say, that's probably a formative year of my life, and then came back to States in my graduate work. And then have been in. Yeah, this field for the last

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Jing Liu: dozen plus years. And my background is mostly in study abroad. Which means outgoing mobility. Right? So us students

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Jing Liu: enrolled in US. Institutions studying abroad in other countries, whether that's through exchange, through factory led programs, etc. And that's what

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Jing Liu: that piece of it drew me to to here to Svcc. And I've I've moved around quite a bit as well. So no stranger to kind of picking up and completely entering a new community and institution. And

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Jing Liu: this job is so cool because it allows me to do

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Jing Liu: half study abroad and something that very confident and adept in and also have responsibility. International recruitment, like we just talked about so as a way for me to

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Jing Liu: but

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Jing Liu: learn and just be hands on with recruitment, enrollment management and that portion as well. So it's like, I wanna keep learning. I wanna be surrounded by people who care are passionate about what they do, and I feel like I mean, I'm only 3 months in. But this is like a great fit, and I'm just super thrilled.

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Jing Liu: For this opportunity.

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Akil Hill: Where did you send you?

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Akil Hill: You studied abroad? So where did you study abroad at?

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Jing Liu: I did II went to this. So it's kind of a source of of of quote shame, because, like people who who work in study abroad, they're like kind of like to wind up each other. But like, I went to this super non-traditional place. I went to Florence, Italy, which is like Mecca, study a rud and when I tell people that that they're like, seriously awesome, though right it was. It was awesome. It was

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Jing Liu: because I as again a bicultural kid, every single opportunity I get II got. I was

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Jing Liu: going back to China, visiting family so like that, like Asia, and and that part of the world was familiar to me already. But Western Europe was completely new. So that's kind of how I came to that decision. And yeah, I mean, I'm friends with with people I met on that experience to this day, and we try to do reunions. And it's just.

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Jing Liu: I tell students it's not just about sitting abroad right like there's so much about yourself that you you develop. There's personal development growth. There's transferable skills when you're budgeting for yourself. When time management, being able to see the world in less black and white terms, like, there's all these things that happen that you're I mean you may be aware of in the moment, but

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Jing Liu: I mean 10 years out looking back like, Oh, that's that was quite an exercise. And

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Jing Liu: and yeah, just exercise and growth.

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Akil Hill: Yeah.

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Hong Lieu: yeah. Someone who never studied abroad first time I when I went abroad the first places I could go, I went to London and Paris, the most vanilla places not exotic nothing, and but I had a great time, you know, like I mean, but it felt very familiar. So I'm not gonna lie to you. But you know, Paris, they spoke a different language, but London knows but it but the history, just the history, architecture, just just the features of that, I mean. It was good enough for me.

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Hong Lieu: but I wanted to touch on a couple of things. I mean in terms of your life. Your life experience has set you up well for the position you're in today, because you talk about going to Florida as a 9 year old from China, I mean trying to acclimate and get used to. And and you know, like the whole thing, that's kinda lot like how the the international students like come here for the fall. If they haven't been to California before. They haven't been to Santa Barbara before that kind of that kind of feeling out process. And you talked about, even

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Hong Lieu: in your your role. You feel like it takes a whole year to get comfortable. I mean, that's knowledge from experience that you're like, okay, I. It takes time to acclimate. And then, you know, to to figure things out to get the lay of the land. You're not. You're not coming in thinking. Oh, I'm just gonna

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Hong Lieu: come in from my stamp on everything. You're actually taking the time to learn this, or you learn about your surroundings and learn the systems before you come in. And you know, insert and and and domineering, or whatever whatever that word is there. But at that's really kind of that's you know it. It's a commendable commendable skill cause. I don't think that happens enough

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Hong Lieu: for folks that come in a come in a situation. Say.

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Hong Lieu: you know a lot of times it's it's just yeah. III noticed that right away, and then another shout out, shout out to the Gap year! Taking a year off to teach, you know. Go to go to try and teach, and that helped. That was a formative experience for you. You said. A lot of folks feel that pressure after they graduate they have to do something. They have to figure it out. They have to have all the answers and know everything.

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Hong Lieu: So it's good on you that you you didn't feel fully committed to that to a path. And you you did something else. And then it worked itself out that way. I mean, my sister is also psychology, Major. That took her a little while. I mean, she did the full Gap year, but she did take that time to to assess assess things. And and yeah, that that kind of reflection.

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Hong Lieu: and everything that just speaks very highly to your character and and bad props. Thank you. That's very kind of you say and I think a lot of that is, I mean, happen as a result of circumstances. There, they weren't necessarily active decisions at a time. Right? But then I mean, life is just really a series of opportunities, and you take them where you don't, and I think it takes

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again a little bit of distance from that that certain, that setting or situation to be like. Oh, this is how all the puzzles kind of fit together.

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Jing Liu: And that's why I tell people all the time a lot of times people force it. They're like, Oh, you know, I've had, you know. They think they've had an easy life. They think they've had this and that. They wanna force situations on themselves like I wanna really put myself into the struggle, or I wanna pull myself into that.

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Hong Lieu: And I'm like, I'm always like Whoa, you know, life will do that for you. Very. You know life life does that on its own the the circumstances and conflicts, the factors we find ourselves in you. We put in a situation where the scenes you make will have far reaching consequences super impactful, and you might, and you won't know in the moment. But hindsight will will kind of fill in those gaps for you. So if you just kinda like, live your life. It'll the those things will find you

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Hong Lieu: so sometimes when you force issue it. It. It doesn't even work, because you might not even be ready at that point. So you is being able to kind of take things as they come. And it's it's a patience issue, too, you know. I mean a patient's question like, Are you willing to be patient and let things flow as they should? Because a lot of times most people aren't? And so they kind of push the issue. And that's when they end up getting into situations. That might be, you know, kind of unwieldy. So

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Hong Lieu: it's it's it's a lot of like you said a lot of just consequences or circumstances that really just kind of work out and shape you to be the person you are that it's it's really good that you you were able to to kind of get that time and and do do that reflection and make it happen, and also

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Hong Lieu: your shout out of Maslow's triangle earlier. I mean, yeah, a lot of a lot of times. Once you get that bottom level, you think, oh, you're ready to go. But Maslow's like 3 or 4 layers deep where you get to that top self actualization. And you know, I don't think we ever really get to that. I feel like that's just like the cherry on top that you just still never get to. But

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Hong Lieu: II what does that even mean in terms of fully cap. Capital. S, self, you know. Capital. S, capital. A self actualization. Yeah, no like. That's that's a level of confidence and and borderline arrogance that II just can't. I just can't put on myself, so I don't think I'll ever get there. But

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Akil Hill: you know one thing that you kind of also touched upon. That you said you really enjoyed about your job is the the kind of the marriage between the international incoming international students as well as the outgoing that study abroad piece, and that

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Akil Hill: to me, is that piece to me is really appealing. I was just kind of wanting you to maybe expand a little bit more on that, because I think

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Akil Hill: you know, thinking about my life and thinking about people who have similar, or that comes from similar places and backgrounds similar to me. Really, don't ever think that traveling abroad is actually in the cards for them. And you know a part, I mean, I've fortunately ha have had the good fortune to be able to travel pretty extensively to many different places, although never Europe.

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Akil Hill: Just because that's not where my interest is. But can you maybe maybe tell you know, or or share with the listeners that if you're a student or your parent of a student, and they're interested in possibly studying abroad. Here at Santa Barbara City College kinda like, what? Where would they go. And how would they kind of start to get the wheels? Spinning on that

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Jing Liu: yeah.

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Jing Liu: I think there's so many.

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Jing Liu: I mean actual barriers and perceived barriers in study abroad, and regardless of where I've worked. I think

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Jing Liu: there's always at the forefront of their their mind is study brows not for me, because it's too expensive.

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Jing Liu: I don't have the luxury of going because of delay. My graduation

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Jing Liu: which also comes back to to money right and and family support. Parental guardian support is so important in that. And there's a lot of misinformation there as well. So I think I mean.

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Jing Liu: specifically an spcc student who wants to go abroad go to our I hate to just direct students to website. And Nicole is our advisor here as well, so you can always come in in person and talk to to us. But Sbcc, international slash study abroad. It's a good resource to go to, and it will show all our in house programs, right? And all of our programs are faculty led, whether that's a summer program or semester program.

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Jing Liu: But there are a lot of

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Jing Liu: funding available as well like both internally sbcc through the foundation, through different resources and externally different governmental or private organizations. So if you're a Pell Grant recipient like the Goleman scholarship.

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Jing Liu: that Miguel was a recipient of is a is a huge sort chunk of money that can really offset your cost of study abroad, and I mean, listen, Santa Barbara is a really expensive place to live. So sometimes, going abroad to a destination. Your cost of living is is lower than it is here in Santa Barbara. Right?

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Jing Liu: I mean, there's so much I can say about about study abroad, but that's I think

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Jing Liu: I would just encourage you, and so at least explore it. Don't write it off and say, this is not for me. Do your research first talk to the people, and then decided, this is a right fit for you. I think students who have studied abroad, in fact, when I talk to students as undergrad say, that was a highlight of their experience, the most memorable, the most transformative, the most fun and potentially the most challenging. But and the people who haven't studied abroad.

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Jing Liu: and this is a nationalization. But they think back and like, Oh, man, that's one. My one big regret like, yeah. So I mean, I think both sides of that is true. So definitely, at least explore that for yourself. And it's it's I mean, if you're planning to transfer. It's it's definitely less expensive to do it as a student. Sbcc, right? Cause you're paying Sbcc tuition. Whereas if you go through a third party program. Or if you wait until you

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Jing Liu: transfer into a a 4 year institution that cost is gonna be more expensive. Because the fee of going abroad right how much it costs to get there, how much it cost to to stay there. Once you're there, it's gonna be the same. But the tuition portion. Is definitely lower to go

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Jing Liu: now. Yeah.

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Hong Lieu: Got out to Nicole, Walter. We she do. I know how much where she puts into the city of broad website. So I will definitely put down the show notes.

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Hong Lieu: I know my personal.

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Hong Lieu: biggest regret is definitely not doing study abroad. I was not only was the cost. It was also I didn't want to be traveling and going to school. It's I'm let me just tell you how bad of a student I am. I didn't wanna travel and go to school at the same time, because I didn't wanna have like I when I travel, I wanna just travel, you know, but but then the folks tell me it, I mean, like like I said, like you were saying, no one's ever said anything bad about the study of art experience, and all the students tell me

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it's so manageable, and it's nice because you have a bunch of peers going to the same thing as you. So your experiences you can share. Is it very communal thing? So so, absolutely, yeah.

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Akil Hill: yeah, absolutely.

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Jing Liu: I mean, and there's infomo. It's a huge. I. Students don't go abroad. They have their network here. I worked at an institution that had a really robust athletic program, and people wanted to stay around for basketball season. And I mean, I respect that if that's a priority to you.

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Jing Liu: but

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Jing Liu: II would just yeah, like, expand your your campus, expand your network right?

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Jing Liu: missing out on certain things that you already know they're familiar to you here doesn't mean

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Jing Liu: is also sort of when you close that door, you open the door to other experiences.

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Jing Liu: And I mean, how many opportunities do you get as as

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Jing Liu: after you leave school as an adult to like actually live somewhere for abroad for 3 months. Right? That's so so rare to come by. Yeah.

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Akil Hill: you know, I'm in the space of the students, and II tell them that often, you know I mean try to leverage studying abroad it if you can. I mean, I know our foundation does so much and and and support, you know. Like you said, it's just not worth writing off, and also to like like what you kind of alluded to earlier about like the

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Akil Hill: the benefit and the enrichment that you get from traveling is

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Akil Hill: It's so like

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Akil Hill: it's so like every time I travel, and I come back. I always feel like I appreciate

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Akil Hill: where I live more because of where I was just at. And then also, I recognize where things can actually get better here in this country. And so it's like through the opposites having the opposite experience. Do you really understand? Like what you have, and I feel so many people in our country, and just don't travel outside of America, you know, and and just miss out on so much

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Akil Hill: good, great things. And and so, yeah, I just think it's important that we, you know, try to push

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Akil Hill: or at least give students that option of, hey, have you ever thought about studying abroad?

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Akil Hill: Cause definitely enriches their lives and their enriches their college experience?

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Jing Liu: Yeah, 100%, I think.

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Jing Liu: traveling right? What's that that quote, like traveling is is lethal to ignorance or something like that. I'm completely but yeah, you just. You have a better understanding of your host culture, and then we come back right. A better understanding appreciation, and just critical thinking of of your hometown where you're accustomed to as well, and you see it through a totally different lens.

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Jing Liu: And then I think, for yeah, the flip side of that coin like I recognize it's it's it's a privilege to go abroad, and not everybody has. It's not just the cost, but also opportunity costs of being abroad as well. Right? So some people are just not able to make that work at this at this point. And

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Jing Liu: and I feel like international students in particular, bring kind of bring that international experience and globalization on campus to you. So there's a way for students who don't ever set foot out outside of, you know, Santa Barbara to also have that international experience. And

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Jing Liu: and I think that's the the beautiful gift that international students provide is is a way to internationalize this campus

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Jing Liu: and bring resources, and opportunities to

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Akil Hill: the community.

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Hong Lieu: And that's a nice part about living so close to La as well, because for the international students, the ones a lot of them that miss. That's that one piece of home, I mean, la, has a lot of regional diasporas in the in the community. So if you want really regional, like Chinese cuisine, you can go to La and get it if you want. Really, you know, really regional Mexican, you can get it. If you want

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Hong Lieu: certain European, you know, like season cuisines. There are restaurants there, you know, there's. And you know Westwood has the the Persian Persian diaspora, and there's just so many groups where students that come here to Sbcc and and soaked up, you know Santa Barbara and and and this culture. But then they miss a little bit of home.

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Hong Lieu: You can do that weekend drive to La. Get that little dip there, and it's and it's like it's not quite there, but it it, if you, you know, depend we can always meet you. Where you're at is where is kinda where I'm getting in terms of you can interface with as much as you want, you know. If you

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Hong Lieu: like, I said, I'll put the study abroad website in the show notes. You can see, different semesters will be have different class focuses. So if there's certain classes that you really wanted to take while you're abroad, I mean, you know it might be a film class, one semester. It might be English classes, or, you know, various other. You know, science classes. So so definitely worth checking out the website, and at least at least entertain the idea like Akeel said, Don't, just don't, don't.

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Hong Lieu: don't discount it, or don't say you can't do it till you to take a look and just assess the situation. So

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Jing Liu: yeah, absolutely, I would say, ask the question right? That if you get a no, it's no, if you don't ask the question, it's not automatic. No, so yeah.

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Hong Lieu: alright, thank you for that segwaying along to our next section. Good eating any food item piece of you know something. You cook where you let me ate something you grew up eating anything you want to share with us feel free to kick us off.

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Jing Liu: Yeah, I think I'm just gonna keep it generic. Cause I'm new. I'm new to town. So I can probably name count and numbers of restaurants I've actually been to my hand. So most places I have not yet been to. And I'm looking forward to kind of exploring different restaurants and and around the region. But I think for me just growing up a comfort food. And I've heard you talk about this in in past

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Jing Liu: episodes. Brothel noodles, as as a generic category just feeds if he's my soul like when I'm hungry when I'm down especially on nice a cold day. Just any kind of it could be, for right it could be

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Jing Liu: braised beef noodles from Taiwan. It could be udo. It could be ramen like I just

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Jing Liu: yeah. It's so comforting.

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Jing Liu: Have you found a brothi noodle in town yet? Have you tried any any of them, or

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Jing Liu: I'm exploring? But, I recently somebody told me about Nika Nika Rama, and that was pretty good. I mean.

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Hong Lieu: yeah, being, that was the first ramen place I've tried so far. And it was that was yeah, decent. So I will. I'm gonna need to go back to all the episodes right now all the recommendations. And I'm happy to take recommendations from you guys as well.

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Hong Lieu: 5 or 4 in the middle road decks that he's about to drop on you right now. So well, you know, like again again, I will say, because La is so close that you're I mean, you really gonna hit hit your stride. I mean, there's a lot of great places in Santa Barbara for for broth and noodles. Because you have, like you, said Nica Ramen.

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Hong Lieu: there's the the Pho places Noodle City in Galita. There's Sifa in Santa Barbara, I mean Moon Fan. You know the type places in town will get you your Tom Yum, and and all that. You don't always get noodles in there.

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Hong Lieu: empty bowl in the public market has the Bangkok Street noodle and boat noodles, so they they do. The noodle soup there, and and I'm trying to think of a place where you could get beef. You know that beef noodle soup, I'm thinking. Sue's bowl in Aila vista.

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Hong Lieu: They do some Shanghai stuff, and they so they do like they'll do like they have like lamb, noodle soup and stuff like that so they might do the beef noodle soup as well, cause I know they have a the beef roll as well. You know the

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Akil Hill: with the green in your pancake that's strapped with scallions stuff! So Sue's bowl and Ilavista might have that. Oh, tasty China, I believe. Let me let me double check that actually is a great in terms of the beef noodle soup. That's exactly what you wanted. A couple of other of our coworkers.

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Akil Hill: And I think I ordered the noodle soup. III was thinking like afterwards. I was like dang like

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Akil Hill: I thought I was supposed to share. I ended up eating the whole thing by myself. But yeah, the beefy noodles the beef noodle soup was was really good. Yeah, that that would be the closest approximation. If susable doesn't have it. Then tasty china inventor would be the place to get that kind of Taiwanese style beef that beef noodles.

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Hong Lieu: cause. That's why we went. We went because one of their one of the pricing people were meeting with hadn't had really had soup dumplings before, and so the ones in town are pretty good, but then this one had some kind of

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Hong Lieu: award, and I'm again. I wasn't sure if it was a paid off award on like some of these, some of these changes. How did you give them 50 bucks? You're like, oh, the list of top restaurants, you know. Whatever. So you never know. But when we went to Shalom about we're pretty good. So yeah, are you a pretty neat salon eater.

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Hong Lieu: II mean, I had a I had to learn the hard way I burn my tongue multiple times especially. Not just Shalom, BA, but Shinjiang bow. You know the bow that are like a little bigger. They pan fry the bottom. It's almost like a bow. But then but those are huge. Yeah, the crusty one, the crusty one that has a huge splash, Shalom bow! The splash is is bad, but the Shinjiang bow I was like, Dang, I'm I'm my my tongue is done right now, but I mean you know you live and learn, live and learn. Now, now do! That's right. That's how I taught them a little nibble

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Hong Lieu: slurp, and then you finish it off. Luckily the place also had the Taiwanese slush. I could get the ice to cool the save ice to cool off after. But yeah, shout out Ken Kang Food Court in my end.

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Hong Lieu: Alhambra.

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Hong Lieu: Various dumplings, and they actually brought it out with a nice bamboo tray like the presentation was was pretty immaculate there, but nice nice crimp on the dumplings, you know, when you fold like they really it wasn't just like a a assembly line just cranking them out. They have to have a nice little pleats and stuff. So yeah.

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Jing Liu: yeah, II taught, and not taught. But I was a resident director. This is a contract gig in Taiwan for a couple of months. And man, did I eat? I just that was the Us. Other than working with students and seeing their transformation. The the eating was like,

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Jing Liu: There weren't enough meals in a day for me to just try everything. Every meal was like, man. What am I gonna have now. But you walk into this like little hole in the wall right place, and you basically say 3 words, and they'll know you order. You tell them. The size you tell them is a wide within noodle type, a noodle, and the the cut of meat

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Jing Liu: so it could be like, be meet or kind of like innards right? And or a mixture. So you just say 3 words, and they bring it out to you, and

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Jing Liu: 90 s

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and then head down. You just slurp your noodles and then get out of there and turn over the table. So which is so nice.

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Hong Lieu: hey? If you wanna throw a time when he's placing the show notes I can drop, I can drop a link for for anyone that who is planning to travel if there's any locations that you remember, and I guess I had one more question since you mentioned growing up growing up in Florida.

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Hong Lieu: How is the Chinese food in Florida, I mean, cause your parent did your parents eat? I mean my parents, still, like default, will want to eat Chinese food above all else like they'll they a little pizza here and there, but like when they have a choice, they'll always go over Chinese food. So were there enough restaurants, you know where you were that you could kind of

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Jing Liu: like they were. They were happy, or or was it? I mean? The easy answer is, is, no I grew up in a small town between Tampa and Orlando, so Mulberry Lakeland for anybody who who knows that. And at the time it was

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not a very significant Asian population. I was. I remember being in elementary school when I first

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Jing Liu: arrive. Literally the only Asian kid in the entire entire school.

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Jing Liu: so and there was weren't really even Asian grocery source. So you couldn't really find even the ingredients to to cook Asian food after I left school like my parents moved to Tampa things like more immigrants. Sorry moving in. So now there's a really robust in Tampa, at least Chinese community, and in Lakeland, and you can find all kinds of food. But back then.

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Jing Liu: I mean, yeah, we ate. You know, those like frozen

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Akil Hill: fake meat things that you bake like the genio turkey things, the layer of white meat, a layer of dark meat like.

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Jing Liu: I don't know why we probably didn't have it that often, but that's just like it sticks out in my memory. Growing up and and central. Florida is frozen, Jenny. Oh, fake Turkey!

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Jing Liu: But now my mom is a wonderful cook like every time I go home. I learned something from her, and she would just be in the kitchen for hours and hours a a day. So I'm spoiled.

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Akil Hill: Well, you definitely have to check out near the city cause, if you're like about the hole in the wall that's definitely

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Akil Hill: for the this location. It's definitely a hole on the wall. I'm sure there's a lot

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Akil Hill: there's levels to this game, right? But for this area I think the whole in a while would be new, definitely noodle City.

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Jing Liu: Yeah, absolutely. I'm I'm there.

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Hong Lieu: Yeah, noodle city famous cafe. I mean, there's there's enough places II always think about that. The coding on the table, you know, like for mica kinda smooth that where that wipes off stains easily. You have that where you could just get a white rag and wipe the table and just comes clean like, yeah, that's that's what I'm looking for. So

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Hong Lieu: we're like plastic seats in Asia. It's like the tiny little plastic stalls that like are a foot and a half off the ground elephants head or vice versa. Okay? Kind of squatting and sitting at the same time. That's probably good place.

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Akil Hill: Small hole in the wall like. Can't sit comfortable, but when the food's brought out to you like. You forget how you were sitting and how you even did it. Those are those places always hit hit different.

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Akil Hill: Thank thank you for that.

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Akil Hill: Oh, we got me

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Hong Lieu: let's see, I'm trying to trying to think. I will go with

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Hong Lieu: I was. Gonna I was gonna I

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Hong Lieu: couple places that I've been to recently. I wanna chat off Sassoon Latino, which is, you know, they they've been in my neighborhood for a little while now, but they're kind of hidden their stride. They got the independent shout out.

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Hong Lieu: They're doing like, and a lot of regional Mexican specialties.

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Hong Lieu: And also

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Hong Lieu: I also wanted to shout out they just opened where patches used to be

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Hong Lieu: the Santa Barbara Pizza house. It's the the manager that used to work. Apaches

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Hong Lieu: is now running the show there. So you know how tough that can be when you take over something. And you're like you're like, Oh, you know. Let's we can do it right. We can do it. And

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Hong Lieu: but sometimes you don't get the time to exercise. Execute your vision, because you may be your funding, isn't there? And I don't know what situation is, but I know that we should support in the short term, because in terms of Chicago deep dish options. You know that the West Coast has never had very many Apaches was very good, and if they've kept any sort of the operations and stuff from the patches. Then they'll be in good shape. It's just that they need to get. Have time to kinda

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Hong Lieu: figure out who they are as a restaurant because they are probably like an independent entity. So II wanna shout them out. So they get the support. And then we can. Yeah, help them out because I do love deep dish, and I do love Chicago thin crust as well. So they they the thing that people

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Hong Lieu: a lot of people, will, you know, like, oh, real Chicagoans don't need deep dish. They only think like that. So if you don't know what the Chicago thing crest style, the bar pie is all about. Then they do the thing, Chris, as well. But I am a deep dish, Guy, so I do love the deep dishes there. I did love the deep dish Apache's and I do love the deep dish at the pizza house. So I wanna shout them out. Because if you're just 80% of the way there for me is, it's like

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Akil Hill: bad pizza doesn't exist like bad pizza. Still, all right, you know. So if you're 80% of the way there with a deep dish. Then it's good enough for me, and they are definitely there. So

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Hong Lieu: I even got my wife. I even got my wife on the little Caesar. Thin crust. But they're they're the little Caesar's pan pizza until corner tap showed up was the best representation of Detroit style. Pizza we had in town, so how corner Tap Corner Tab is holding it down? They got easily. Detroit saw. Pizza is very good, so they they took the crown very easily, but at the same time, before they were there, there was no one else.

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Hong Lieu: and Detroit Pizza was having a moment in La there loudly. People doing it so wanted that like cheesy edges, crispy crust.

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Hong Lieu: You had to go down there or get little Caesar's. But now corner tap, I guess that's a good! That's a good third shout out, Corner! Tap on the mesa. They're kind of neighbors there. They Detroit stop pizza. They got, you know. Pull port sliders and and all kinds of their menu. Whole menu is pretty good. But that Detroit stop pizza.

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Hong Lieu: Yeah, because it's it's yeah. They do that cheese on the outside, so they don't bakes. It crisps up. You get that crunch. I mean, it's not for everybody, because you know the thick crust pizzas are quote unquote gut bombs like they. If you, if you know that you don't handle carbs well, like you don't wanna be kind of sleepy after we're like this is not something I mean. Corner tap isn't even open for lunch.

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Hong Lieu: but pizza houses, if if you can't handle it, because, you know, like I used to. I think I was tough to e any buffet and trying to go back to work. And I learned my lesson. Nope, I can't do it. So if you you gotta know your limits. So you understand. If you if you can hang, then go for it. But otherwise, save for dinner cause it's yeah any heat up. Well, if you have an air prior toaster of it. So.

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Jing Liu: man, it's this lunchtime right now, guys, I'm

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Akil Hill: I'm only gonna go. I got 2 spots, and I'll be quick. I think I've shot it out this one before, or often, too, Rory's.

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Akil Hill: But here's here's why yeah, I know you're out here listening to me like yo man, he's always dropping no worries. But they have. It's it's November, right? Or yeah, it is November today is actually the first. But they have

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Akil Hill: I I'm just gonna shamelessly say, I received emails from Rory's about new things. So I got an email yesterday.

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Akil Hill: and they have pumpkin ice cream. It's a cookie ice cream sandwich, right?

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Akil Hill: Poking ice cream

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Akil Hill: with 2 molasses cookies for Rory's. And so you know me. You know

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Akil Hill: I do what we guys do. We have and he said the screenshot of the email. And then, like, maybe like an hour or 2 later. He's a picture of it actually on like in his in his person. And everyone's like you just went on Grab, that he's like showed it. I'm like, Oh, man, that's right, absolutely is true. That's is that's factual. I

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Akil Hill: got the email yesterday and I went yesterday evening, and it was as advertised. Really good. You got the key with ice cream sounds. Y'all. You gotta like let it sit for a while

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Akil Hill: so, and I know I'm not.

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Akil Hill: I'm not like the type of person that

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Akil Hill: that has to pull it straight out and eat it right away. I'm more like, okay, let me get a little soft, a little bit, and so that's that's just my opinion on it. I let it kinda sit for about 10 min and, man. That thing was like

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Akil Hill: I, either. Roxanne stepped away. She came. I said, Hey, so when you need your ice cream bing on but definitely it's seasonal guitar's ice cream. Get the ice cream sandwich the pumpkin ice cream. I feel like it could use a little bit more ice cream, but the the texture and the flavor. The ice cream is amazing. Rory's everyone knows that they don't disappoint

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Akil Hill: the other shot I wanna give the other a not is

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Akil Hill: soul bites

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Akil Hill: I was, you know these as as the fall starts to roll in here, like all the home cooked meals, starts to kind of start to bubble up, and one of the the meals that I really enjoy from soul bites is their catfish

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Akil Hill: their fish and chips is actually pretty good. But it's like a Southern twist. So definitely, if you're feeling like you want some soul food definitely hit up. So bytes get the II like the fish and chips a lot, and then the other thing that is really good that they make is the crackling.

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Akil Hill: the chicken crackling man. It's just the chicken skin deep fried. I'm not saying you, you know. Go there often, but if you're ever feeling like you need that, they definitely have that to. It's actually really good

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Hong Lieu: soul. Bytes is awesome. Because I you know, when they were were there, the space where Velvet Jones used to be the music one of the music venues in town, and when Velvet Jones closed I was. I was really worried about the space. I'm like, you know, you can't really do too much with. There's not much you can do. Music venues are not really profitable ventures anymore that have that size because of the way, ticketmaster, and all that stuff works. So when when Soulites first came in, I was skeptical. But, oh, man, he is knocked it out of the park.

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Hong Lieu: He's got live entertainment most nights, you know, regular upon a regular basis, and the food with the size of the kitchen they're working with. It's a really small kind of kitchen in that corner, but they're cranking out, I mean there. There was not a lot of soul food in Santa Barbara. I don't. I mean. I don't know if there was any soul food in Santa Barbara, even

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Akil Hill: yeah. For in terms of restaurants, especially on State Street.

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Hong Lieu: But they they they took grab that torch and they've been running with it, and then, like everything I've had has been good. The cracklin is amazing. Sometimes they don't have it. I'm really sad, but I try to like play it off cool, like, oh, no, but yeah, the fried chicken's good, the catfish

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Hong Lieu: all the sides that he'll have desserts, you know, a lot of times like the

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Hong Lieu: putting banana pudding and stuff like that. I think it was the one that hit me up on that when you and Lisa were talking about I was. I gotta try. And I was like, Oh, my goodness, this unreal! So.

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Akil Hill: Hong, you have to tell the listeners

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Akil Hill: one thing I suggested on this show a couple of years ago. Hong, my man finally got around to trying it last week, and so you gotta let the people know, Hong. You gotta let the people know. So yes, to kill on. I've I don't remember which episode it was now, but he shouted out, the blender's 50 50! But instead of orange, you get pineapple.

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Hong Lieu: pineapple juice and pineapple, Sherbert and I was like, oh, that sounds really good, cause, especially because, he said, it tastes like a dull whip from Disneyland, and if you have any experience at Disneyland, you know the dulwip is an iconic kind of thing like those lists of things you must do when you're at Disneyland.

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Hong Lieu: Dulwip is on that list, cause the dulwip is just delicious. It's like you get pineapple flavor with that hit of ice cream, and it creates this textural blend. So Aquil said this 50 50 smoothie, you know, was like a dull whip, and I the back man. I'm like, that that sounds really good. I gotta try. I will try it some day.

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Hong Lieu: Never really tried it until

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Hong Lieu: recently, last week, coupla days ago, he was like, alright. Let's go to blenders. I'm like, I'm finally gonna do it.

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Hong Lieu: That was incredible. It was unreal. It was just like a toll whip. It had the texture. It had that little ice cream like shot in the back, but the pineapple flavor was there because they're using natural juice. And Sherbert. Oh, yeah.

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Hong Lieu: I actually should have should have laid that off my picks with that, because I'll I guess I was trying to say some face or something. But hey, we're we're putting all that business out there. Yeah, for sure. A keel, I mean. I always call a keel to yelp, whispered jokingly, but truly.

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Hong Lieu: truly he he can. He can cut right through all that nonsense and get to the heart of the matter. If I'm a blender I like, I'll and I was at Blender's confused cause. The menu was so big and they asked me what add on I wanted. I'm like. I didn't know what an add on was, but

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Hong Lieu: all I knew was, listen to what Akil told me 50 50 sub pineapple, and it did not leave me astray, and I've been back multiple times since I had to get one for my son so he could try it, and I had to get one, so my wife could try it, and we're all hooked now. I like it like

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Hong Lieu: even my son, cause I he he gets like one dessert at night sometimes, and used to be he'd get a cookie or ice cream, and I'm like, what do you want now? He's like.

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Hong Lieu: I want the pineapple. I want the pineapple, so I'll drive until 10. We're most places like even ride aid because rides ice cream is another. Go to that. We'll go to sometimes.

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Hong Lieu: but they close like 9, 9, 30. You'll stop doing ice cream. Blender's open till 10, consistently. So yeah, I'm in trouble for that respect. But II always steal a couple of sips, so I'm good there too, as well. So I will. I will re throw that in the shuttle happily, because, oh, my goodness, although I can't order, I gotta talk to blender's corporate, because using an online order, I can't input, that properly.

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Hong Lieu: No. Oj, no Surebert pineapple. Sub yeah. So. But yeah, order that that way

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Jing Liu: on on that note, segwaying to our final segment, higher learning. Jing, kick us off again. Any piece of culture, book, movie, music, TV, anything, video, game, whatever you like.

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Jing Liu: anything that has moved you now or or before.

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Jing Liu: I

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Jing Liu: I'll go. I'll go. I'll go book, cause I just finished reading

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Jing Liu: a book by Matthew Desmond, called Poverty by America.

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Jing Liu: And it was

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Jing Liu: so eye opening. So he is a sociologist, I believe, by training. And he wrote evicted, which was also a very good read. Everything that he's he's written is good. But this I think poverty by America came out. I wanna say, this year?

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Jing Liu: but it's yeah, really well researched. Very well referenced. a commentary, a manifesto in some ways about the state of poverty in the United States, and how public policy?

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Jing Liu: kind of created that, and how we

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Jing Liu: what am I trying to say here, how? Yeah, it's. It's it's a systemic, systemic

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Jing Liu: kind of creation. Because of how how we do things here in the Us. And he compares it to other countries, and he makes suggestions about how it can be eliminated. The gap. The Poverty Gap can be reduced quite easily by pulling. You know the levers on certain things. But yeah, it was just really eye opening.

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Hong Lieu: III didn't haven't read the book, but I Npr did a segment on it few months ago a while ago, and it was interesting kind of, you know, the premises involved in terms of

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Hong Lieu: the the poverty line being set the way it is so. People that are just slightly above that poverty line are the ones that are like really, really suffering

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Hong Lieu: and kind of. And and that was something that I had known about for a while. But I never really felt, because, you know, I my family growing up. We were really poor like we were way below the poverty line. There was no question about that. So the age is flowed, you know, like welfare, and all those things. They flowed in easily. It wasn't till a lot later where

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Hong Lieu: I met more. You know, my friends were some middle class friends, and saw really their struggles, and how the their struggles were were just as valid, not more so because they would ask for help and never get it. And I would ask for, and our family would ask for help, and people would be tripping over themselves to provide it, which was much appreciated. We needed it, but at the same time. II it created this sort of

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Hong Lieu: you know, this despondence among that population. II saw that, you know, first hand, and I really really struck me so, seeing you know, when I heard the Npr segment on this book.

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Hong Lieu: I remember thinking clearly, like, yeah, absolutely that that I bet you it's a very salient premise, because the nature of poverty in this country is is kind of understated, and and it really does need to be reevaluated kind of in terms of how people are actually living. And we and you know, in general, most of our policies and procedures need that second glance, and they never get it. So it's it's good to for more people to raise raise that, you know. Raise attention issues like this. So

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Hong Lieu: great pig.

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Akil Hill: Absolutely. I'm I'm really II just pulled it up on online here. And I just kinda looking at it and definitely interested in trying to to get to it and read it, cause it

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Akil Hill: looks really well. And I think we all know, I mean, just being on campus and our basic needs and students that are, are, you know.

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Akil Hill: students and staff that are accessing our basic needs. And it's definitely definitely an issue. I would almost even say some cases almost like it. Just like.

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Akil Hill: yeah, I mean, I'm definitely curious. I'm curious about getting into it and reading it. And that was, yeah.

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Hong Lieu: Yeah, I mean, we we did talk about Maslow's triangle, Maslow's hierarchy earlier, and that bottom rung, I mean, you do forget how many folks are missing pieces of that bottom rung like. They have certain things that are very well covered.

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Hong Lieu: but especially, you know, things like housing and stuff like that where? Yes, you you might be in an apartment right now, but you may have a landlord who just jump into the bit to raise your rent 15% of the year, or or jump at the bit to sell and kick you out in a year. I mean, it's just those things where

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Hong Lieu: we we have so much instability and it. And it is kind of roiling. They don't enter the like a rolling boil, like the the roiling insecurity that folks face. I mean it.

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Hong Lieu: It's it's

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Hong Lieu: it's all it's constant, you know, like I, it's hard for me to. It's funny because I had a pause to go back to that mindset of when I was young because I am like a you know, comfy public sector sell out now. But you know, when I was young and and living that grind, II remember it just being constant, and it was

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Hong Lieu: even when you have a break. It was. It was a very temporary break, because the next challenge was just coming down the line, and and sometimes you would, for sometimes you would have an idea that it was coming. And sometimes it was like you, said Jing, where it was just circumstances were gonna present themselves and and just throw something at you, and you'd have to really kind of pivot and be quick. But

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Hong Lieu: The other aspect of of

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Hong Lieu: the poverty is like, you know, mentioned in the book is talking about how you know the the social network, the social. There's room for social programs to improve, to address address the shortcomings, you know, via tax breaks via, you know, programs like welfare which which had stigma for what I hope we're past that now.

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Hong Lieu: where we can just give give help as quickly as possible, as much as as much as can can be. Budget for to as many people as possible. And just, you know, give people money. That's always. That's always been. My answer. For everything is, if you wanna solve a problem.

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Hong Lieu: programs and everything are great and and and information. But money is

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Hong Lieu: money is crucial for a lot of people, and money is the driving force behind stress for a lot of people. So I mean, I hope I see universal basic income in my life. But I don't know if I don't know if I will, but that would help a lot. I mean, just just there's so many ways you can attack this issue. And I think without having read the book, it's something where you could approach this from any angle, and you'd probably have a good argument, because we really are not doing enough. And we're really not doing it where we don't have enough insight in the issue

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Akil Hill: do to do enough because we're kind of afraid of what we might find I feel in a lot of ways we don't feels part of. The problem. That's a part of the property is that we don't know right? That's how it continues to to happen.

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Jing Liu: Yeah, it's it's it was so insightful, and he talks about the exploitation of of

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Jing Liu: workers are poor. And how

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Jing Liu: we keep poor people poor through a variety of things. The exploitation of workers through wages, through

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Jing Liu: ha housing, right access to credits and finances and payday lenders and all just he kind of with toss about the whole gamut of things, but also things that

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Jing Liu: that

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Jing Liu: I mean that I do or take advantage of, and I don't think of it as exploitation, but in the systemic way it is right. So he talks about welfare, and how people look on. perceive welfare as as handouts for the poor. But how the middle class and and rich people get Welfare fair from the government in

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Jing Liu: in much higher numbers right? So he talks about mortgage rate interests like tax deductions, loopholes 5, 29 plans, all that is is subsidized by the Government. How much money goes towards those plans that

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Jing Liu: that we take advantage of. But don't perceive, as welfare right? And Akil just shouted, that out on our on our Miguel episode about how you know we're so ashamed to ask for help and take on dead, and, you know, do do things on credit. But that's how the wealthy. That's their main source of operation is staying, you know, keeping that stuff. They're they're roiling

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Hong Lieu: is roiling debt. I guess our our roiling Port people roiling is roiling dead as well. But it's just, is it? The pressure and the public perception on it is so different that it's just

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Hong Lieu: it's kind of hilarious. Yeah, that you yeah, you

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Hong Lieu: that you wouldn't. Yeah, you you're not willing to to take well, like it's shameful to take welfare.

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Hong Lieu: But everyone's everyone's writing off everything on their taxes. But it's not even an issue. So it's it's like, yeah. And and then our success metrics, I think, need to be adjusted as well, because even when you see jobs, reports, and and Gdp, and everything's like everything's looking, have you know, Hunky Dory, in our economy right now. But you're like you look at the at the ground level. Individual stories and and things are still tough. So it's it's it's nice to celebrate those wins as as they are, but also to recognize

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Hong Lieu: that the issues still persist and are pervasive. And it's like you can do both. I feel like you don't have to be all you know, sunshine only possible. You don't have to be all like it's, you know, down with the dumps! But there, I feel like there's there's more room to to embrace that dichotomy, and do both, and really help individuals

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Hong Lieu: where they are, but also understand that on the whole, that you know

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Hong Lieu: the the economy still moves and and and things are, things are still going. So yeah.

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Akil Hill: yeah, alright.

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Jing Liu: Great choice. Great choice.

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Hong Lieu: I'll go next. My pick is an animated show. It's on on Hbo Max. I don't know. We're streaming on TV. I don't know what's on TV. But no stream. Max called scavengers. Rain. It's it's in the style it the style is done reminds me a lot of this French artist, Mobius

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Hong Lieu: Mobius, teamed with Alexander Yoderovsky to do a lot of great seminal kind of

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Hong Lieu: comics and stories back in the eighties and Nineties. My one of my favorite stories is called the Leinkal, the Incal, as a French comic and it's like sci-fi kind of band. And now was Mobius and Yoderosky, but Mobius Art Mobius's art style. I mean, he did concept drawings for the the David Lynch noon movie. He's done a lot of stuff. Yeah.

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Hong Lieu: he's done a lot of comics over the years, you know madwoman was Sacred Heart, Edina. Th th he did a another world there. But so these these artists I don't know if they're French. But I know they're definitely mobius influence, because it just feels like it's rout.

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Hong Lieu: And it's a great show. It's very grizzly is very visceral, because it's just idea of like it's a sci-fi kind of tint where they're stranded on a a remote planet and trying to kind of get back. But just the art, style, and animation is very, very clean, and but it's very visceral, like my. I try to get my son to watch. They said it was too nasty for him. So it's so. You, I mean, it's it's not like really gory, like horror, but it is very visceral and kind of gross. So that's that is a warning. It is. It is rated for mature audiences.

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Hong Lieu: but it's it's accessible. It's not straight horror, but it's very tense. But I just I mean, it really just floored me. It's it's not something where I watch a lot of animation. I watch a lot of stuff, and II haven't seen anything that

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Hong Lieu: felt like such like, new and fresh, even though it's very indebted to its influences like it feels very new and fresh in terms of of animation. And just you know, the the story that it's telling

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Hong Lieu: is seems just very cool. So I wanted to shout that off for sure, and it also gave me a chance to shout out like I said, Mobius and Yoda Rosk, for all their comics that have cared me over the years, and

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Hong Lieu: I'll pull links all that stuff in the show notes. But yeah, scavengers raining. It's still ongoing. They've 6 episodes have really been released so far, I think, is an 8 episode season, and it's based on an original short. They did. But I'm hoping that they get another season to tell more stories, because again, they're the art style. I mean it. It be busy beyond the viscera and and all the detail there, just really kinda cool story telling and world building there. So

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Akil Hill: great choice.

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Akil Hill: awesome. Rick. Yeah. What you got a keel? So I got I'll go. And I'll

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Akil Hill: just one thing on going today and something that I'm super proud of. And and really help enrich our campus is, I'm gonna go with the new aap. I, Meryl, I think that's something that

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Akil Hill: is, you know, and so many different for so many different ways, and do different reason reasons that it was obviously much needed. We know that.

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Akil Hill: That the people who the artists that had performed the Maryland han you can jump in here anytime because you probably know more than me. But it's a company called Twin Walls Mural Company and it's an all ran by, I believe, 2 Asian women

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Akil Hill: and they're based out of the Bay Area, and, you know, shout out to a Api for selecting them and bringing them down and and creating such a beautiful mirror on our on our campus centering the Asian diaspora and just, you know, just people seeing themselves, you know. II was talking to them when they were here, and

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Akil Hill: they were telling us a story about some people showing up and just being really an emotional. And and you know, the first time they've ever seen themselves represented in a way

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Akil Hill: where they felt, seen or heard. But you know it kind of led me to the conversation of having telling them that. You know, I've always believed that artists are more than just artists, that in a lot of ways I feel that they're healers and just hearing the stories of people showing up to the mirror and and crying and and just out of, you know, just releasing that. I'm like, yeah, you guys thought you're here to paint a mirror. But what you're actually here to do is heal people. And I just think that you know

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Akil Hill: that anyone that's on our campus

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Akil Hill: to being intentional about making their way over there on the back side of of the I guess the the closest place is by the cafeteria, right? The back side of the cafeteria out on the patio. That's where you would find it. Just amazing work. Amazing detail, beautiful colors. Just an amazing job is incorporating as many cultures as possible. That's a big task with just within itself, but just feel honored and and and

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Akil Hill: appreciative of of Santa Barbara City College for you know, making this happen, and shout out to Api and all those who put their, you know, time and effort into making our campus a better place for for everybody. So that's that's my pick for the week.

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Hong Lieu: Yeah. I mean Shadisbcc for putting for for helping to to help get that mural installed also the Emoji mural on the other side of the wall, and the Manuelonsueet mural on the other side. So the campus center right now is on and popping visually. It's it's it's beautiful, I mean, if you haven't. If you haven't seen any of the murals, or if you have seen some, but not all of them, it's worth taking. Just a walk around and seeing how beautiful the building is now, and and how it pops, I mean, cause you know, someone

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Hong Lieu: who loves street art and that kind of thing that th. This is truly art for the people. You don't have to go to a gallery and be, you know. Be worried about how you know how you are. You can appreciate. You can just walk by, appreciate art. However, you want to, and just really bask in in in the beauty that it is, you know. So.

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Hong Lieu: So that's it's really awesome.

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Hong Lieu: II will say

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Hong Lieu: you know me growing up. I

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Hong Lieu: never thought I'd want a needed representation. I never, you know. I thought I thought that I was just, you know, for me. I was just used to kind of being anonymous and being in the shadows and not needing that representation.

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Hong Lieu: But for my son seeing my son, as you know, he's now the only only Asian kid in his classes, one of the few age. I only think he might be the only agent kid in school, but there might be another one, but

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Hong Lieu: for him it's more, much more important. And and seeing how he felt. You know how stoked he was about the whole thing that really turned me around the whole thing.

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Hong Lieu: where

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Hong Lieu: I guess I'm just old and jaded and not but but for the youth, for the young people, I mean, that's really what kind of

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Hong Lieu: yeah it was. It was. It was really helpful to see how much he appreciate that representation, how much he needed it and it. And it doesn't matter what I think at the end of the day about this stuff, because it's not for me in that respect I'd love. I appreciate it as as a piece part and all that stuff. But for him, and seeing how important is for him. That's that's all I ever need to to. Yeah, see the importance of that in our community. So

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Akil Hill: well.

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Akil Hill: well, I mean. I think I'll and I'll say this right like I'm listening to you know a lot of stories about, and I can relate to myself, too, as being one of only

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Akil Hill: one black person in the school, or definitely one black person in the classroom, right? And so many spaces where you're showing up, and you're the only one. And you know just the the piece of really

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Akil Hill: always wandering. Are you good enough? Or or you know, if people really understand you what you mean when you say what you're saying, or how are people gonna judge you like all those feelings that are deeply embedded in us, and II even

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Akil Hill: hear them, even when you were just talking hong about how you know you didn't really think representation mattered, and probably reason why you. You know you've probably felt that way is because the consequences of represent of representation right? So in order for you to.

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Akil Hill: II used to think the same way to a certain degree like I didn't like. I don't think that's really for me, you know, I just kind of wanna

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Akil Hill: navigate these spaces and get along with everybody, because

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Akil Hill: the consequences of seeing yourself is impactful. Right? And so that's the piece where people showing up. And they're crying because they that's very deep inside them, right? And and and artists have the magical ability or capability of bringing all that out. Of people. Because now they're like, yeah, I didn't think I needed it, but now I realize it is important.

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Akil Hill: not only for me, but

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Akil Hill: for my child. Right? So I just think like.

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Akil Hill: you know, like, it's such a beautiful like what you're saying. You can literally walk around the building to get 3 different flavors. Of just artistic ability, you know, it's like Baskin Robbins, you know, like you got like the different colors, the tigers, the vibrant from the

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Akil Hill: the Api mirror, and then you go around to the side you hit with the you know the black African black Futurism, or African Afro Futurism. And this. And then you go around to the front, and you're hit with some a piece. That's a timeless piece that was created in the seventies. And what was going on. It's just such a

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Akil Hill: such a special place and and to be in that just kinda want to remind the viewers to kind of show up. And you know and visit these places, cause I always feel recharge once I go there now I gotta go all the way

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Akil Hill: all the way around all the time, but it's definitely worth it.

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Jing Liu: Yeah, absolutely, I think. Represent like you, you both said, you don't feel like you need it until you have it. And like, Oh, this is this is what this piece does. Right? I mean, there's definitely I mean for me. There was a a rejection of my identity in the beginning. Before I was able to embrace that. And I think

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Jing Liu: if you're I don't know if you're lucky there's maybe denial. We're just ignoring that part of identity. If you're not lucky, then there's a rejection, and like people vilify it right? But

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Jing Liu: especially when it comes to race ethnicity. This is identity that you you wear. It's like 100 visible doesn't matter if you try to reject it. Yeah, yeah. So it's just so nice to see. Yeah, especially the the Apm. And how's the celebration of of

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Jing Liu: the diversity identities? And also I love how they did the little vignettes! And

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Jing Liu: was it Cpr. Or, however, you want to describe it, of the the dark times, right? And how? How this particular

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Jing Liu: group has. Yeah, had his fair share of of strife. So yeah, I just think it's so well done, and it really was an impossible task. I mean, we we asked them to represent

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Hong Lieu: Asian culture, you know, almost as much as they can get in there, in, in, in that that size of a wall, I mean, if you had 8 times the wall, you couldn't. You couldn't fit it all in there. But they they did a great job. I mean, they really did. Yeah, they did it. They did an excellent job, and and I will say, like, I just wanna preface, my my mindset is

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Hong Lieu: is very unique, you know, like, I'm not. Yeah, II just feel it's not for me because I've grown up my whole life feeling like I owe everybody else something, you know, like I owe America for giving me my livelihood. I on my, you know I for for give my parents up a safe harbor when they needed it. I've always been OO, I've never asked for anything in return. I never. You know I've I've tried to position myself

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Hong Lieu: to not have to, you know, to take anything in return. So it's it's just that's just II like, I said, I'm a I'm a crotchy old man now, so I can. I can even add that on top of that. So. But that's so. It's just yeah. II never thought I needed it. But it's something that is is just seeing how my son

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Hong Lieu: it. It interacts with the interfaces with it. I can. I can abide by that for sure. And I definitely respect that. Absolutely.

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Akil Hill: Okay.

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Hong Lieu: Alright. Great picture. Y'all great show jing. Thank you for coming on taking the time it was an honor.

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Hong Lieu: Before we say goodbye for this episode. Is there any any last words, any shout, final shout out, anything

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Jing Liu: Yeah, no, I mean, not really. Just come come by the International Education Center. Say, Hi, to national students around campus. Think about study abroad. Shout out to all my my team! They make it so easy to to work here. And international education Week is is in November. So the week of November thirteenth

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Jing Liu: there will be, I think, a couple of events around that that week that we're trying to plan. But yeah, it's just a really nod and acknowledgement of what international education is and what makes this campus so beautiful. So

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Hong Lieu: yeah, look out for for those events. But thank you so much for having me on. This is super fun. I want to eat with you guys.