Akil and Hong welcome Melinda Gandara and Thomas Carrasco from the SBCC Ethnic Studies department to talk about the program at SBCC and what life experiences led both of them to teach at the college. From there, the group discuss potential hints that students may have an aptitude for ethnic studies, their favorite foods, and essential films and books that have been foundational in their knowledge of the discipline.
Mentioned in this episode:
SBCC American Ethnic Studies - https://www.sbcc.edu/americanethnicstudies/
Chicano Power Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicano_Movement
Black Power Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_power_movement
El Paso Del Norte - https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/el-paso-del-norte
Chicano Secret Service - https://www.facebook.com/ChicanoSecretService/
El Teatro Campesino - https://elteatrocampesino.com/
Cedric Robinson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedric_Robinson
George Lipsitz - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lipsitz
Chela Sandoval - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chela_Sandoval
Clyde Woods - https://cbsr.ucsb.edu/news/remembering-clyde-woods
Anything But Mexican: Chicanos in Contemporary Los Angeles by Rodolfo F. Acuña - https://www.versobooks.com/products/1533-anything-but-mexican
Racial Formation in the United States by Michael Omi - https://www.routledge.com/Racial-Formation-in-the-United-States/Omi-Winant/p/book/9780415520317
Ramón Favela - https://www.arthistory.ucsb.edu/people/ram%C3%B3n-favela
Liberation Theology - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
Holiday in Cambodia by the Dead Kennedys - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_in_Cambodia
Domestic Policy of the Ronald Raegan Administration - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_policy_of_the_Ronald_Reagan_administration
Angela Davis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Davis
SBCC's Courageous Conversations for Outrageous Times for the Chicana/o Culture Conference - https://www.facebook.com/events/784586975229427/
Hidden Figures: The American Dream and the Untold Story of the Black Women Who Helped Win the Space Race by Margot Lee Shetterly - https://www.hiddenfigures.com/
Xicana/o/x Time and Space Exhibit at the Atkinson Gallery - https://sbcc.edu/newsandevents/pressreleases/2023-9-5-Atkinson-Gallery-Exhibition-Xicano-a-x-Time-Space.php
Del Pueblo Cafe - https://dpcsb.com/
EOPS - https://www.sbcc.edu/eopscare/
Rasquachismo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasquachismo
SB Farmer’s Market - https://www.sbfarmersmarket.org/
Quesadilla - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quesadilla
Mole - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(sauce)
Like Water for Chocolate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like_Water_for_Chocolate_(film)
Chile Relleno - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile_relleno
Short Rib - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_ribs
Ribeye - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rib_eye_steak
El Taco de Mexico Oxnard - https://www.yelp.com/biz/jesses-el-taco-de-mexico-oxnard
Rudy’s - https://www.rudys-mexican.com/
Meun Fan Thai Cafe - https://meunfanthaicafe.com/
Carne Adovada (New Mexico) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobada
Carnitas El Brother - https://www.carnitaselbrother.com/
Yolanda’s Mexican Cafe - https://www.yolandasmexicancafe.com/
Andria’s Seafood Restaurant - https://www.andriasseafood.com/
Bristol Farms - https://www.bristolfarms.com/stores/la-cumbre
Bangkok Avenue - https://www.bangkokavenuetoaks.com/
Finish the Fight Virtual Play - https://timesevents.nytimes.com/finishthefight
Lone Star - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Star_(1996_film)
Human Flow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Flow
The Pearl Button - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pearl_Button
Washington Bullets by the Clash - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slOz1XFCUXE
The Black Power Mixtape - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Power_Mixtape_1967%E2%80%931975
Race: The Power of an Illusion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race:_The_Power_of_an_Illusion
The Wind That Swept Mexico by Anita Brenner - https://utpress.utexas.edu/9780292790247/
Occupied America: A History of Chicanos by Rodolfo F. Acuna - https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/occupied-america-a-history-of-chicanos/P200000002694/9780137525508
The House on Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/27844/the-house-on-mango-street-by-sandra-cisneros/
Federico Fellini - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federico_Fellini
The Brother from Another Planet - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brother_from_Another_Planet
Eight Men Out - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Men_Out
Captions Provided by Zoom
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Hong Lieu: Hello and welcome to another episode of SBCC Vaquero Voices - a podcast highlighting the unique voices that comprise our campus culture, and how we're all working together to serve students and our community at large. As usual, I'm joined by Co-host Akil Hill.
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Akil Hill: What's good y'all.
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Hong Lieu: And today we are honored to welcome Melinda Gondata and Dr. Thomas Carrasco to the show. Welcome! Y'all
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Hong Lieu: good. Good. So y'all are Thomas, you're the chair of ethnic Studies department. And Melinda. You're a faculty in ethnic studies. Correct? I I think we've had the conversation, you know, in the last 5, 10 years. There's no need to have the conversation of why ethnic studies and all that. So we can just move on and just get into the heart of the matter of
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Hong Lieu: So what really kind of is is the most enriching part of teaching ethnic studies to students, and what you know what really kind of drew you to that kind of as opposed to any other discipline that you could have taught.
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Thomas Carrasco: So
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Thomas Carrasco: pretty much so I went to San Diego State. I'm born and raised in Oxford, California.
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Thomas Carrasco: and pretty much was raised in a society where it wasn't segregated, but it was segregated. And then, just, you know, just the concept of not being part of American history, American culture. And just so we'll be straight out and say, you know, even today, you know, when mass media covers
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Thomas Carrasco: Chicanos Mexicans, Latinos, you know, which is known as Hispanics. The 2 main images that they reproduce over and over and over is the immigrant and the and the criminal. Right? So just as a chicano activist. And so when I'm talking about activism, I'm talking just literally, you know, fighting for healthcare
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Thomas Carrasco: housing, capital and education across the board. You know, equality. And just. I come from a trucking family, you know, and so I was very influenced by my grandma, who was born and raised in East La in 1922,
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Thomas Carrasco: and then my dad, who had a small trucking family and just really subverted systems of oppression through economics. And so I literally
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Thomas Carrasco: a product of the Chicano power movement, black power movement, civil rights movement.
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Thomas Carrasco: So I come from literally, like my parents, were segregated in Oxnard. You know there was a school for the white children, and then the barn with all the animals. That's where my mom and dad went to school. So with that history in mind, you know my mom and dad in the fifties didn't have access to higher education. But we did right because of the Black Power movement, Chicano power movement, civil rights movement.
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Thomas Carrasco: So one of the things that changed my life
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Thomas Carrasco: is that I was a foreign exchange student when I was like 17, and I went to Brazil, and that was the 1st time I was able to look at the Us. From the outside in. And that's when I started decolonizing my mind, my body and my spirit at Santa Barbara City College.
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Thomas Carrasco: and just in a nutshell. I was like, why should I be ashamed of being a Mexican? You know we're workers, you know. So me and Melinda, we our families both come from El Paso. Right? So we're Mexican Americans, Chicano, that come from El Paso that are highly educated.
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Thomas Carrasco: And again, that whole concept of getting your education and going back to your community and trying to get as many other people of color into the and all students into the university system. So that's where my foundation came. And so then from San Diego State I went to Uc. Berkeley and to San Francisco State, and I got a master's in ethnic studies. And then I start we. I became part of a comedy troupe called Chicano Secret Service.
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Thomas Carrasco: and so I studied with Luis Valdez of Teatro Campesino, and I was able to subvert white supremacy ideology with humor. Right? And so right now I just finished this documentary on Chicano Senior Service, and one of my examples of
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Thomas Carrasco: you know, Chicano satire is like your Mexicans are lazy, but they're going to take our jobs. You know Mexicans are dirty, but could you clean my house? I really don't trust you. But could you take care of my children?
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Thomas Carrasco: All right. Y'all all right. Hong, all right, Akil, stop laughing. Okay, you're out of control. So that's that's our type of humor. Right? It's dark, right? But at the same time Chicano Chicano humor. It is with the point. It's like, so when Luis Valdez of Theatre Campesino trained me.
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Thomas Carrasco: he, we learned how to write actos right? So you would present a issue in the community, and you would hint at a solution right? So right now, you know, like, if I was writing a sketch on Santa Barbara City College.
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Thomas Carrasco: I would write a sketch on affordable housing. You know you look at Santa Barbara like Santa Barbara, has so much wealth, and we can't get a Federal like we can't get massive housing built. It's just an issue, right? So again, that's my background.
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Thomas Carrasco: And then I was, and then after about 15 years of being a theatrista, my family was always man. Art is for rich people. You need to get a job. So I went back and got a Phd. I was one of the 1st to get a Phd. In Chicano Chicano studies.
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Thomas Carrasco: which was like a big deal. And that's where I met Melinda. Melinda was helping these workers that didn't get paid for painting, you know, like at Ucsb, all the all the people that were at Ucsb. You know, employees were pretty much euro Americans, and all the people that were contractors.
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Thomas Carrasco: You know, we're Mexicanos, Latinos, right? We always say Ucsb. Gets very dark after 5 pm. Right? That's when everybody come in and clean the rooms. And so Melinda was helping these students, and I was like, man. Who's that lady? Right? And then we became friends politically, and then I studied with literally, this is like my Chicano Harvard, right, Cedric Robinson, George Lipsitz, Kumkum, Babnari.
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Thomas Carrasco: Chela, Sandoval, Clyde Woods. Those are all my my professors at Santa Barbara City, at Ucsb. And I had this amazing black studies. Chicano studies of race. You know, educational foundation. And then
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Thomas Carrasco: Santa Barbara City College. I thought I was gonna have to go to the East Coast to get a tenure track. Right? So just so, you know, tenure track jobs are so hard to get right. And so I got hired at Santa Barbara City College and me and Melinda and the other faculty. We've been able to develop one of the best ethnic studies in the nation.
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Thomas Carrasco: And so that's you know. So ethnic studies. You know, Chicano studies, African American studies, native American studies.
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Thomas Carrasco: you know, Asian American studies. Those are the the 4 out of Uc. Berkeley. That's the discipline. And then the reason why we're so on fire right now, there's been a paradigm shift in ethnic studies.
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Thomas Carrasco: So we just got area F, so we're we're friends with the people in Tucson. I don't know if you're aware of this, but the the Mexican American studies program in 2,009 they got shut down by the racist Melinda. They got proven racist. And what was that race? Racial.
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Melinda Gandara: Oh, it was animus racial.
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Thomas Carrasco: Show animus. They proved
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Thomas Carrasco: that they were racial animists, and so sean arson, so that so shutting down
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Thomas Carrasco: Mexican American studies in Arizona
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Thomas Carrasco: catapult ignited the the movement for ethnic studies in California, which is really ironic, powerful. And so right now we have area F, it's a requirement to take ethnic studies for the Uc. And the Uc. And Cal. State.
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Thomas Carrasco: and then they're also implementing it in the high schools and a kill you can attest for the the pushback right and the misinformation of ethnic studies. So ethnic studies is pretty much an inclusive, diverse, multicultural version of American history. It's a it's a multidisciplinary discipline. Right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And so our classes are packed right? And so just. You know one of the things that me and Melinda we we scaffold. So I teach introduction
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Thomas Carrasco: history of racism. And then Melinda teaches Chicano art. She's the art person, right? And so again, you know, right now we're covering the Mexican American war of 1846. Right? And it's just a brutal war.
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Thomas Carrasco: And even like all the anti-immigrants, so like when you know, they say immigrant, that's code for Mexican, right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And so real quick. I wanted to say, this Hong, is that
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Thomas Carrasco: you know there's 33 million people in the United States, and there's 63 million Latinos, and these are the Latinos, 37 million Mexicans, 5 million 6 million Puerto Ricans, 2,480,000 Salvadorians, 2,000,400 Cubans.
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Thomas Carrasco: 2,000,395 Dominicans, 1,000,880 Guatemalans, 1,000,450 Colombians, and 1,000,222 Hondurans. And there's more. But I wanted to make a point
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Thomas Carrasco: that we need to call ourselves what we are right. So there's even a book. One of our our foundational scholars of Chicano studies has a book anything but Mexican, right? And so they never want to say the word Mexican. And so like in Santa Barbara City, there's 54% white, 38% latino, 3.4% Asian, 1.8% black 0 point 8% indigenous and 0 point
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Thomas Carrasco: 7%.
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Thomas Carrasco: Pacific Islander. So I just want to make a major point when we're talking, you know. I thought this was for the Hispanic Surrey Institute month, right? Which I'm like, you know, our joke is, you know, before the year Americans came here. We had a whole year. Now we have a month, thank you. But anyways another good joke. Right? Akil. So
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Thomas Carrasco: you know.
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Thomas Carrasco: even like right now there's this big thing. It's Historia America, and John de Guisamo. He means well right, but he's like making statements like in 1870 they were
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Thomas Carrasco: hanging Latinos in South Texas. No, John, there was no such thing as a latino in 1870 they were hanging Mexicans right? And so then then he says, you know, in 1521, you know, Cortez and Malinchi had the 1st Latino. No John. In 1521 Cortez and Malichi had the 1st modern day Mexican.
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Thomas Carrasco: So that's what we do in ethnic studies, like one of my big lectures is like Mexicans are not immigrants. Mexicans are indigenous to the southwest, 1050 BC. The Utaz Azteca Empire emerges, and that's where all of our civilizations, you know, emerge from.
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Thomas Carrasco: So that, being said, we are indigenous to the Southwest. But within the Us. System we are immigrants, right? And so that's what we teach a lot. So that's my background. I love teaching at Santa Barbara City college
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Thomas Carrasco: man, our students, you know. We just got a student to Stanford. Akil's daughter is going to Ucla. I mean, we lay it out, man, we empower our students. I use racial formations as one of my books in history of racism. They use that book at Uc. Berkeley, Harvard, Yale.
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Thomas Carrasco: We have. We have some amazing
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Thomas Carrasco: of professors
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Thomas Carrasco: at Santa Barbara City College, so I'll leave it there.
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Hong Lieu: Thank you very much. So, Melinda, wherever you fit in there, if you want to just fill in some some gaps, I know you're not just quote unquote the art person. So if you just wanna slide in and and.
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Thomas Carrasco: Say she was only the quote, unquote.
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Hong Lieu: Okay.
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Thomas Carrasco: Crazy hong.
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Akil Hill: But we all know she's more than that. Anyone that works at Sbcc knows.
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Akil Hill: We knows and knows. We all know.
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Thomas Carrasco: And our department. That's her area of of expertise in regards to Chicano art, Mexican art. And we have great relationships with the museums, with the art department, etc. That was my point.
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Melinda Gandara: Yeah. Well, I was going to say, you know, one of the things that's so wonderful about why Domas and I are here right now is that we really weave together so much of our disciplines. I come from an art historical background, but also from an oppositional narrative. One of the most important things for me is that
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Melinda Gandara: when I was studying art history, which is a very Elitist department, and in many ways, you you know, people usually travel. They they have art in their house.
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Melinda Gandara: I was looking at Chicano art and studied under Ramon Favela. And so this really spoke to me, and it was really a very interesting place to be at Uc. Santa Barbara, because when I was there there wasn't a Phd. Program in Chicano studies, it was only my ability to take my art historical narrative and to arc it towards the areas of interest.
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Melinda Gandara: So I
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Melinda Gandara: focused on Chicano art, and I also focused on the arts of the Americas so really, broadly, being able to pull that together.
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Melinda Gandara: But to go back to our our background, I think both Damas and I are shaped by our parents and our grandparents experience. And I think that's an important component, because so many of our students are as well.
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Melinda Gandara: And for me, I have a father who is a Mexican national, so on my birth certificate, it says, you know my mother is a citizen, and my father is a Mexican National. So already there, in a document that identifies me, I'm already positioned
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Melinda Gandara: as an outsider because of those those distinctions that are made.
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Melinda Gandara: And so what we end up doing here in in particular? Is that my personal experience? I remember being, you know, a very quiet child, and and really studious.
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Melinda Gandara: and my grandfather, we'd go visit him in El Paso, and
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Melinda Gandara: he'd say, What are you learning in school? And I would tell him, and he goes, that's not true.
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Melinda Gandara: And I would sit there, and I was always kind of you know. I couldn't challenge him because out of respect. But I would go. How come? My grandfather doesn't know this history well, what he was doing was laying the foundational tools to challenge the system.
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Melinda Gandara: and it was so important for me. It took me quite a while, but I had to realize by the time I was in high school I had developed the ability to see a much larger narrative than the textbooks were providing.
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Melinda Gandara: but incrementally. It took me, you know, it was really hard to sit there and have to realize
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Melinda Gandara: this was happening, and in my own personal experience. I remember being here at the Uc Uc Santa Barbara is where I got my undergraduate degree as well.
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Melinda Gandara: and and the Chicano Mexicano latino component was 3% right? We're talking nothing. We weren't even there.
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Melinda Gandara: I went to the dorms and I couldn't believe that people ate bread. I ate with tortillas right? All of a sudden all of these cultural experiences were hitting me.
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Melinda Gandara: but probably the hardest one was being in the dorms, and we shared a phone at the time, right? 4 of us shared a phone and one of the suite mates said, the maid's on the phone, and I'm like the maid, and she wants to talk to you.
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Melinda Gandara: I get, and I don't know what's going on. And I pick up the phone. And I said, Hello!
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Melinda Gandara: It was my mother.
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Melinda Gandara: so does
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Melinda Gandara: powerful punch to the gut
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Melinda Gandara: is about our presence, and our presence is so
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Melinda Gandara: pigeonholed. As Tomas was saying. Right
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Melinda Gandara: we are labeled, and and my mother was labeled because of her accent, and I couldn't explain to this person, because her reality is that has to be. The person who cleans the house
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Melinda Gandara: is my mother.
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Melinda Gandara: 1, st one of the very 1st Mexican Americans hired the Federal Reserve Bank in El Paso. All of the contributions that she's made.
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Melinda Gandara: We're summed down to this one layer because of an accent.
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Melinda Gandara: So I have always carried with me a profound sense of of knowing. My mother would always say you stop people. If they're going to be harassing anybody, you stop and you help people because of your language skills. You intervene because you have the power to do that.
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Melinda Gandara: and that stayed with me, and also I was shaped in the parochial school system with what they called liberation theology, and this is where all of a sudden we're seeing all of these things happening in the church
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Melinda Gandara: and looking critically at us, intervention in the Americas.
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Melinda Gandara: And so to me the fact that my parents were activists in the sense that they marched with Cesar Chavez there in San Jose they were very much aware. I grew up in the Ag. Business, you know. Toque grapes is what Lodi is famous for, and it was a very diverse community only because of the Mexican workers.
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Melinda Gandara: But the separation and the gap between wages
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Melinda Gandara: was what really separated all of us. One Catholic Church, Mexican Mass, or Spanish mass for the Mexicans, English Mass.
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Melinda Gandara: and
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Melinda Gandara: a completely divided community right? Still divided today. And the really hard part is that
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Melinda Gandara: all of this work that we're doing is so critically important.
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Melinda Gandara: And so what we're doing here in this discussion is we're just positioning ourselves. And for me, I couldn't be who I am if I didn't have all of this background and knowledge. And so what we do with our students is we're giving them factual information. We're talking about the history that has not been in our history books. We're talking about the art that is not in our art books. We're inserting our presence.
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Melinda Gandara: And we're using our our ability to use this knowledge right to go in and take the deeper dive.
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Melinda Gandara: and what I have to say about Santa Barbara City College in particular, you know, when Tomas and I met we met because we're activists, not because we were on the sidelines. We were there in front of Cheatl Hall, banging pots, making our presence known, our voices seen and knowing we were being photographed by
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Melinda Gandara: Cheadle Hall.
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Thomas Carrasco: And Melinda just real quick, and then hong. So when I got and kill, when I got hired at Santa Barbara City College, every semester. I would tell our chair. Could you hire my friend? Could you hire my friend? No, no! And then Melinda's like Melinda's always been like, really
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Thomas Carrasco: pick your battles right. She's always been really, very, very strategic, and so, thank God! And then they hired this lady, this Hispanic, and she quit in the middle of the semester. And that's how Melinda got in. Sorry about that. I had to say. That is that a cool story, or what.
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Melinda Gandara: But remember, I used to say, don't worry. Things will happen the way they're supposed to unfold.
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Thomas Carrasco: Get so mad. I'm like, hire my friend.
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Melinda Gandara: Well, you know, one of the greatest joys is has been to teach at Santa Barbara City College, and I'll tell you why, when I was in the Phd. Program at Uc. Santa Barbara, I was pulled aside by one of the faculty members who said to me that you're not really going to fit into the tier one. And I said, Why? And he said, because you care about your students.
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Melinda Gandara: And I thought that was our job right, and he said, No, our job is to go out there and do research and to publish. And so I realized, you know, to me, Santa Barbara City college is the heart of our community. It is about the students who never had the chance to sit there and see themselves in higher education. And we're giving these opportunities.
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Melinda Gandara: and I have to just say that I think the power lies, Thomas, when you talked about scaffolding absolutely, you and I have worked very hard on using terminology, we build on each other. We talk about our classes in our classroom, so that students know how to bounce into the next next series, so to speak.
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Melinda Gandara: But what we do is that we create a sense of belonging. You know we talk about this at Santa Barbara City College, but our classes
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Melinda Gandara: provide that foundational knowledge to allow students to say I belong, and I know why.
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Melinda Gandara: And I have to say this gives me such hope for the future when we talk about our our future. This community is a young community.
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Melinda Gandara: So the future is going to be made by these voices in our classroom and the political power that they're going to be able to exert.
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Melinda Gandara: We're harnessing the steam.
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Melinda Gandara: and we're changing people's lives in the in as well. So I don't know. I get very excited, and I'm very passionate about what I do.
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Thomas Carrasco: And just real quick. I'm going to kill just to go back to ethnic studies.
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Thomas Carrasco: So one of the complicated concepts that we do is that we teach students how to identify systems of oppression which could be very, very complicated because you always get that. Oh, there's no racism. And one of the major concepts that we teach is a structural analysis versus an individualistic analysis, right? And so even like during like.
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Thomas Carrasco: I'm not sure it was 2,016. But you know, trump won. You know my students would come to my class and like.
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Thomas Carrasco: Oh, you know we have this. I do this moment where we
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Thomas Carrasco: we share experiences that that relate to our class, and my students would tell me, oh, I work at Mcdonald's, and this man told me to go back to where I come from, and you know this, this and that in these situations, and then my students will ask me like, Well, what do I do.
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Thomas Carrasco: you know? And I was like Whoa put on the spot right, and I was just like my natural reaction was like, Defend yourself, defend yourself with what with knowledge. And they were like Whoa with knowledge right? And so again, you know. And even when you go to the you know, Melinda was talking about, you know.
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Thomas Carrasco: you know, experiences at the University, you know, when I went to San Diego State, and I went to Uc.
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Thomas Carrasco: Berkeley.
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Thomas Carrasco: I always remember every white student always asked me, What does your dad do? What does your mom do? And you know I caught on, and I'd be like, Oh, my dad's a lawyer, and my mom's a principal. And then my Chicano friends would be like, Really, I'm like, Shut up. Just go with it? Right? So it's totally like, yeah, just bsing them right?
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Thomas Carrasco: But again, you know what my point is is that different cultures fight in different ways, right? And so words are powerful, you know. And so that was, the whole thing is is like what me and Melinda do is we create.
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Thomas Carrasco: you know, intellect, I call it intellectual momentum into, you know, educational momentum, but they are successful in ethnic studies, and 101 and Chicano studies 101. And I tell them
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Thomas Carrasco: people in Harvard are reading this book right? Racial formations is a hard read man. They just like Come, they're just become brilliant, and they man, they rise to the occasion, and that success leads to other classes, right at least to other success, of their
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Thomas Carrasco: of their of how they feel about themselves. And, most importantly, Melinda, I wanted to add, especially with Chicano art mixed with Chicano studies, 101. They see themselves in our text in our films, in our, you know, whereas in society they don't. You know we make fun of
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Thomas Carrasco: the Spanish fiesta days in Santa Barbara right. And I say, man, all I know is, there's a whole lot of tamales going on in that fiesta right? And so then we teach them, you know. Why isn't the Mexican? Why isn't the Mexican Spanish fiesta days right? And then we talk about racism right? It's it's a it's a it's a Spanish fantasy that Acuna covers right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And so again, always able to connect intellectual theories, knowledge to 2,014. Right? So like right now, there's a very anti-immigrant sentiment with, You know, trump right now. It is what it is, you know, when they say you know the border's out of control, you know, I'm able to lecture. Okay, what does that mean? It's a 2,000 mile border, the premise is.
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Thomas Carrasco: And then my students like. At one time it was. It was in control, absolutely incorrect. The Us. Mexican border has never been in control. Right? And then we're able to go deeper, right? And so again. And they're able to, you know, analyze, you know. Why is it? What? And then the and the other thing, too. What I wanted to add.
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Thomas Carrasco: if you look at the Chicano Latino Mexican population of the United States.
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Thomas Carrasco: la, you know. Like so a lot of you know, when I debate people, they'll say, Oh, the Latino population is only, you know, 19%, you know, 2,006. It'll be 28%, right? etc. I go. Yeah. But we're caught like la, 50% Mexican, right? Latino, El Paso, 90 San Antonio, 40% Miami, 40%, mainly Cuban, right? New York.
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Thomas Carrasco: like La Vegas, Phoenix, Tucson, especially Houston. So everywhere where we're at, we have the most dynamic economies in the world. We do the work. That's the bottom line. We do the work, and that's what empowers my students like work.
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Thomas Carrasco: You can't beat hard work. And I'm talking about intellectual work and physical work. Right? So I just wanted to add that.
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Hong Lieu: Yeah, there's a lot to pull from from both both of your your stories coming up and and everything I wanted to really highlight.
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Hong Lieu: You're you saying that different cultures fight in different ways is is absolutely, very true. And also tying knowledge to that that missing piece. Is that the the way you fight in terms of these systems is legally, and you know, via, like those kind of resources you need. You need to write write things, to file lawsuits and to protest, and to to have that change on the bureaucratic end as well, because
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Hong Lieu: so that stuff has to happen. So you have to take that fighting spirit of your culture
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Hong Lieu: and add knowledge to it. To give you the tools that you can write a. You know a some sort of argument that you can present and things of that sort. So tying the knowledge to that fighting spirit is is really important, and then also want to highlight what Melinda said about
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Hong Lieu: about learning about things outside of of just the general knowledge of school. You know things that the things that your grandparents were planning in you, Melinda, the things that you were learning from reading all these all these works and and studying under all these teachers. It's just it's the same thing that I felt really, when you know, when when I found Punk Rock.
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Hong Lieu: you know there were some the dead Kenny's put a song called Holiday in Cambodia about what was going on in Southeast Asia that was not being covered in school. You know the Khmer Rouge, and stuff is is more well known now because of, you know, movies like the killing field and stuff. But it was not that well known. And I'm my family's from Vietnam. I didn't even know about a lot of stuff going on until
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Hong Lieu: you know songs like that. Allow me to find other avenues. You know about how you know, even Reagan you talk about in in history the light of history. Me growing up. Reagan was a great man, and then Punk Rock and started it just unpacks everything, and having those kind of teachers to unpack things and just really
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Hong Lieu: broaden the knowledge. I mean, that really feels. I mean, it's a great way to kind of highlight. What programs like ethics today provide to students that are willing to take them, you know. And so
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Hong Lieu: thank y'all for for for sharing all that.
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Akil Hill: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I there's a couple of points that I I thought were extremely powerful. That both you guys have made.
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Akil Hill: Just I. You know, I'm thinking a little bit about when you guys are saying how
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Akil Hill: the impacts of people of color, how you're nothing and everything all at once.
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Akil Hill: like right? So they want to limit you to being like you're nothing. But then you're doing every single thing.
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Akil Hill: So it's just that duality of not
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Akil Hill: be people telling up. You know, our students and us that like are people of color like, you're not anything. But then you look at the industries, and you see who's doing all the work behind the industry. So it's like you're nothing and everything. At the same time they want you to think that you're nothing, but you're actually everything right. And so
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Akil Hill: that's just pretty profound. That's something that I kind of. I think Dr. Crosco had mentioned that, and
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Akil Hill: and the other thing I I was kind of thinking about when listening to. You know, Melinda, when you were talking.
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Akil Hill: was just how people of color and our wealth have always been
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Akil Hill: poured it to pour into each other. It's never been like a physical, monetarily stacking of paper. It's always been pouring back, you know, into each other. That's where our wealth, as people of color have always resided, and this whole, you know, push of capitalism and get get the bag and stack the paper and make all the money, and
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Akil Hill: that's, you know, like, yes, make the money to live, but also the same time. That's never
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Akil Hill: how our people determine wealth, you know, and just those are a couple of things that I just kind of came to mind by listening to you guys.
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Thomas Carrasco: You know, one of the one of the lectures I give in my class is that I do this whole concept of of
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Thomas Carrasco: of monetary wealth, right versus cultural wealth, right? And so like pure materialism, right? Which we're pushed to versus cultural wealth. Right? So like, you know, a filmmaker, a poet, a teacher has cultural wealth, right? And so what do you, you know? Value right? And so that's that's the beauty of what we're doing.
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Thomas Carrasco: We're literally studying ourselves. You know I always give examples, like, when I was at Uc. Berkeley and I took my Asian American studies classes, you know, I didn't know the difference between Filipinos of people from Vietnam, Chinese, etc, etc. So like even in our classes, I say, you know, if you're a Chicano or Latino. You're going to have a certain experience. But if you're like, you're American, white, you're going to know who you're around and why, you know. And going back to your comment. Akil is like.
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Thomas Carrasco: I think that's why I I so
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Thomas Carrasco: gravitate to culture, you know, and humor right? So I grew up in a very, very racist society, but I had some funny uncles and aunts, you know, and like, we're always able, like, you know, I just have this, you know, you know my grandma from East La. She was tough.
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Thomas Carrasco: and you know we kind of grew up in a tough neighborhood, and I was like 3 or 4 years old, and we'd leave, and she'd bless us, and she'd be like, Be ready, be ready for what? Grandma, anything you better be ready. I was all dang I was like oh, my gosh!
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Thomas Carrasco: But that is such a good philosophy to this day, even at Santa Barbara City College, I swear if I had a quarter, for every time somebody asked me, Where do you live? Where do you live? You know it's like, What's your? What does it matter to you where I live, you know, and
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Thomas Carrasco: but again put trying to put you in that economic, political, social box right? And so again. So, watching my
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Thomas Carrasco: I also had this aunt, you know my grandma's sister. She you know she would be. We may not be rich, but we look good, you know, and so again how to subvert. You know my grandfather had a band during the week. He was a field worker, but on the weekend they would hire him. He came from Kansas right, and he was like ranchetto jazz. They would hire him for weddings. You know, Quinceaneras, you know anniversaries.
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Thomas Carrasco: and he would tell my mom what I make in one night. I make more than all week, but it was so cool. He was a jazz musician from Kansas right, and so they would hire him, and then they would hire my grandmother, make the mole right. And it was like this total family endeavor of culture. Right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And so it was. I hate to use the word high end culture, you know, but my grandparents are very, very sophisticated. So, on one hand, my grandparents, the Avilas they wanted to assimilate. You know they never said anything, you know. Blah blah
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Thomas Carrasco: my other family, I swear, man, my grandma and her sisters. Her favorite line was, I told them, and I told them right. And so like as a 68, 69. I literally seen people rise up, you know, and and stick up for themselves. And then economically, you know, my grandma, she had like a we did good economically, and so
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Thomas Carrasco: that's why I try to pass on to my students like, you know, I you know, I give the definitions of Chicano Hispanic a lot of identity, right? And you choose like. I always tell them nobody should ever tell you what you are, and they are that's called cultural domination. You choose your own identity right? And so I learned that from Angela Davis, you know I was able to study with her at San Francisco State, right? And so
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Thomas Carrasco: culture is very, very powerful. You could create nation states. And then you could create culture, you know. Look at it, Santa Barbara, the culture of Santa Barbara. We have a lot of activists in Santa Barbara. And then you have all this wealth, right? And so
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Thomas Carrasco: we. That's what we teach. And that's what we thrive on.
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Melinda Gandara: You know, I just wanted to add to that really interesting Tomas, the other thing that I think is important in our our discipline and and the way that we teach it is.
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Melinda Gandara: it's not just about the classroom we are out there in our communities. We are seen by our communities. And importantly, we allow extra credit opportunities to be part of the learning experience.
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Melinda Gandara: And so we have put together. I mean, I give you a lot of credit. The most courageous conversations was a great platform for bringing in
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Melinda Gandara: scholars, artists, musicians, so that our students could actually dialogue, and not just reading from the text, but but having the opportunity to meet people who are in the textbooks, right?
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Melinda Gandara: And so what we're doing is we're breaking down so many barriers. Our students to a large degree have not had the opportunities to go to these sites
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Melinda Gandara: because of the economics because of Covid, I mean. So the barriers have been high, and what we've done is so many times that we've been able to say
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Melinda Gandara: just being here is a radical act. Your presence on this campus is a radical act.
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Melinda Gandara: and how to harness all of that, so that we go and we can change some of the things that are happening. The Santa Barbara Museum of Art is a different place because of our presence in it.
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Melinda Gandara: because of the students who show up and who are now seen as an integral part.
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Melinda Gandara: Not just a sideline, not just a week, not just a month.
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Melinda Gandara: but a part of the mainstream programming that has to go on.
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Melinda Gandara: So when we do this. What we're doing is we're not only teaching, we're by example. And then the the wonderful opportunities that we do with our
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Melinda Gandara: are outside influences that come from the people that we know our network of community. And I think it's so important. You know, I'm teaching a class on the Chigan and other Latino women. And one of the things I do is I talk about hidden figures.
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Melinda Gandara: and every week I give them 3, and they're always like I had no idea.
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Melinda Gandara: So what we are doing is showcasing these unknown
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Melinda Gandara: people that have made major contributions. And I think this was so important that you were talking about Damas, about the economic output that we put in
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Melinda Gandara: it goes so unrecognized. And what we're doing is we're making our students much more aware of it. So that this knowledge is part of this, this ability to know that we stand on the shoulders of all of this history, this rich history.
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Thomas Carrasco: So we did this series called Courageous Conversations for Outrageous Times.
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Thomas Carrasco: And so that was trump, right? Like a lot of like what was going on. I was like, this is unbelievable, you know, like the bringing back the IQ test. Referring to an African American woman as low intelligence. You know, all these racial tropes that are just like
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Thomas Carrasco: out of control. And so I was able to do a really good series with that. And then my last, I've been working with the art department. So I did a a show called we are ancient and we are simultaneously modern, right? And so that whole concept, and I give them visuals. You know. I started with the Omega, the Maya, when all you know, it was just really really powerful again to show the visual right. And so again.
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Thomas Carrasco: Taking it from our
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Thomas Carrasco: our ancestors. You know what they did in the Mexican revolution, the muralist right to who educated the the. You know the population through murals because a lot of people weren't able to read right? And so yeah, we we chip chip away. But overall. I think you know our department is small, but
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Thomas Carrasco: all of our classes are packed right now, which is really, you know we do. The there's been a paradigm shift in teaching. So I'm not pro online. But there's a lot of our students that wouldn't be able to get their classes that we wouldn't do our 8 week, you know, online classes. We do it all. We, you know, 16 week face to face. 16 week hybrid. I just think we should
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Thomas Carrasco: we should, we should cater to our students right? And so there's a lot of changes at Santa Barbara City College. But hopefully we'll be able to maintain.
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Thomas Carrasco: The involvement of our faculty, you know, for the betterment of our students.
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Hong Lieu: So I guess my question, my follow up question would be in terms of for students.
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Hong Lieu: I mean, you have a lot of students that have some generated requirements will take ethnic studies here and there are, and when you would do you, is there a certain quality or trait that would you know you would
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Hong Lieu: mentor student and tell them, hey, maybe ethnic studies is the major for you ethnic studies is the A for you, or is it just so applicable to everybody that you just kind of give them the material, and they just kind of
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Hong Lieu: take it and go with it regardless. Or are there certain kind of traits. I mean, it's just just for students who might be listening to this. You might be thinking, oh, maybe I'll give it a shot. Is there a specific thing, or is it just kind of so universal? It doesn't matter.
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Thomas Carrasco: You know what I do in my classes, and this is where my sister's been a
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Thomas Carrasco: She's been a counselor at Ventura College for 30 years, and one of my biggest compliments that Akil gave me. He's like man, your sister's og, right? And so we're Chicanos from the nineties, you know, that had really good education. So I literally like I draw lines. It says passion, and the other line is talent.
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Thomas Carrasco: And then I do like the intersection. You try to. You attempt to create a career out of that area? Right? And so I just do my thing right. I just teach, teach, teach, teach. And there's certain students that are really attracted to me and attracted to the discipline, and I do it organically right. But
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Thomas Carrasco: And then the other thing, like with ethnic studies, black studies. Chicano studies is such a good foundation. You know we do do the whole like law medicine. You know. It's like a foundation for all these different careers. So.
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Thomas Carrasco: yeah, it depends on the student and what they want.
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Melinda Gandara: And and I would jump in and say that to a large degree I always tell them
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Melinda Gandara: you can double, Major. I mean, this is the opportunity to be able to take a history class and say, I not only did history, but I did ethnic studies.
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Melinda Gandara: and it really gives a much fuller picture as to what they're actually really working from. And I think the double major is important. But but the other thing is just take our classes.
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Melinda Gandara: Majoring is is part of the you know, the jumping through the hoops right?
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Melinda Gandara: And the beautiful part about our liberal studies program at City college is that we can take so many different classes to fulfill that that ethnic studies is a component of that.
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Melinda Gandara: And I think that what's so fascinating for us, that is, you know, the most. I think we need to tell them we're doing a documentary on our students.
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Melinda Gandara: And we're doing a documentary on our students because, Hong, just what you talked about. We have such an array of students that have come from such different backgrounds that our awards that we honor them. Every every spring. We have now tracked some of them, and they are now in Phd programs.
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Melinda Gandara: They are a student just contacted me. She just.
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Melinda Gandara: She's in a fully funded program for a Master's degree in Latin American studies at Stanford
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Melinda Gandara: we have worked with students that have never seen themselves in higher education.
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Melinda Gandara: I'm I'm talking about Shaina. Damas, you know. Here is somebody who comes as a reentry student and is now on fire. She's going through her graduate program.
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Melinda Gandara: It has been
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Melinda Gandara: unbelievable. And when we started to look at this, we realized
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Melinda Gandara: we have to honor them so dimash. You want to talk about the documentary real fast.
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Thomas Carrasco: So we're gonna be interviewing like 7 to 8 students that have really just excelled from our classes and develop themselves. And we will, you know, like it's almost like
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Thomas Carrasco: sometimes I just like to do my thing and not bring attention to myself, because we have so many neoliberal people on our campus that
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Thomas Carrasco: are not cool, you know. And so you know, we're but we need to document what we're doing because it's so powerful for our community and for our students, you know. And so we're going to be working with actually, Melinda has done a award winning documentary before. And I'm also doing documentaries right now.
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Thomas Carrasco: And so we're going to be working on that in the next year, and we're going to fund it ourselves. You know what I mean, it's not that big of a deal. It's so funny because the last art opening I had right. I always go to Del Pueblo, you know, and I'm like, could you give me $300 worth of Taquitos, you know, and like? And then, you know, Mario's like we could have paid for that it's like, I don't need your money. I could. I'll do it myself. It's not that big of a deal right? Self-determination. Just get it done right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And so, yeah, we'll be doing that. And then simultaneously working with Eops. You know, Eops is amazing. On our campus. We used to be in this peak program, we might go back. I'm not sure what they're they're planning. But you know, we we select the programs that we want to participate because of the politic, right? So what you see at Santa Barbara City College right now. And I was talking to John Leguizama earlier.
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Thomas Carrasco: you know, like, just because you're a person of color does not mean that you can't reproduce white supremacy, ideology, right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And so that's the
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Thomas Carrasco: the danger, you know, of like being so
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Thomas Carrasco: so quote unquote, decolonial. And you're so colonial, right? And so that's why I kind of like want to mind my own business. But at the same time Melinda's been really motivating us to document our students for our community communities. Right? And so, you know, Akil, your daughter is one of the students that we want to interview, you know. So
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Thomas Carrasco: one of our success stories right? And from the bottom up.
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Thomas Carrasco: So we're excited about that.
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Akil Hill: Absolutely.
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Melinda Gandara: You know, Tomas, I want to go back and just talk about why it's so important. You you did the conference with Chito in I believe. February earlier this year.
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Melinda Gandara: and what I loved about it. It wasn't just about for our faculty. It was expansively including high school teachers, counselors. You showed up. All of this was really about being able to weave together our interests and to be able to share out.
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Melinda Gandara: So I'm at the I'm at the conference. The workshop. And all of a sudden this man comes up to me, and he said, You know, are you the Melinda Gambetta that taught my daughter, and I'm like I don't know what's her name.
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Melinda Gandara: And he told me her name, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, yes, I'm writing her letters of recommendation for graduate school right now.
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Melinda Gandara: And I said in that, and this is the one who just, in fact, got into Stanford. And I said, you know, and I encouraged her to make an application to Stanford University.
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Melinda Gandara: The man had tears in his eyes. He said, Thank you. This is a student I have never met face to face. She was a peak student.
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Melinda Gandara: We went through Covid, and yet I knew her so well
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Melinda Gandara: that when her father told me her name. I knew who she was.
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Melinda Gandara: So when we're talking about this importance, I have to sit here and be very blunt about it. What we have underscored is that we're laying this invisible fingerprint that's leaving such an indelible mark on our students, and that they come back to us. Now, this student, after after matriculating through with her 2 years at Santa Barbara City College, went on to Ucla, graduated with honors, and I said to her, Why didn't you get a letter from one of those professors? And she said
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Melinda Gandara: foundationally, I could not have done Ucla had I not done
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Melinda Gandara: Santa Barbara City College.
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Melinda Gandara: and that's a very powerful way for us to be able to know that the work that we're doing and the reason why we're doing it
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Melinda Gandara: is to bounce off these kinds of successes.
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Melinda Gandara: Hmm.
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Hong Lieu: That's that. You couldn't have summed it up. Anybody you could put a period right there put a bow on it that was beautiful right there. Thank you very much for that.
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Hong Lieu: All right, segue. Now to our food section. Good eating.
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Thomas Carrasco: So.
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Hong Lieu: How about you?
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Akil Hill: It must have my ear when he said that $300 worth of Taquitos I was like, Oh, yo!
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Thomas Carrasco: You don't care.
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Hong Lieu: They put it down.
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Thomas Carrasco: And a kill. The coolest thing about it. My students ate them all, man, it was chicken beef, and papa. My favorite is papa, and the most important is Del Pueblo is a activist Chicano. You know, restaurant that we need to support.
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Melinda Gandara: And it's owned by a Chicana who was in our classes. Tomas.
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Thomas Carrasco: Exactly, exactly, go figure.
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Hong Lieu: I remember they used to put on shows like Scott and Espanol shows there, and I would still.
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Thomas Carrasco: Yeah.
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Hong Lieu: Now and then, and they do like a like Smith night. It was. Yeah. It was.
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Thomas Carrasco: For our local businesses, you know. And just really.
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Thomas Carrasco: yeah, yeah, it's, you know, a lot of it's just do it yourself. You know a lot, though one of the concepts that Melinda talks about
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Thomas Carrasco: is a rasquatchy aesthetic right. And Las Quachismo is like, whatever you have you use it.
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Thomas Carrasco: Do it, you know. And so
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Thomas Carrasco: yeah, I'll be doing a new, hopefully, a new art show
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Thomas Carrasco: on the Los Angeles. I was part of this Chicano Chicano Renaissance in the early nineties.
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Thomas Carrasco: And so that's going to be my next show. So what I do is I do essays, visuals, and then we do a performance, you know, right then and there and then we document it. So again, you know, we have an amazing film department. Osiris, one of the documentarians, you know, is teaching a lot of our students how to be. You know, activists, you know, filmmakers. So
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Thomas Carrasco: we're we have a lot of, I just want to shout out to. We have a lot of amazing professors
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Thomas Carrasco: that are doing what me and Melinda are doing, but in their own disciplines.
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Hong Lieu: How about you, Melinda? Any sort of dishes? Restaurants besides, Del Pablo, you want to shout out or.
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Thomas Carrasco: Well, that was my oh, no.
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Hong Lieu: We'll come back to you. We'll come back. We'll come back. I just got to keep it moving, you know. Keep.
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Hong Lieu: No, no, no, no, yeah, don't worry.
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Melinda Gandara: You know what hung. I have to be honest with you. I love cooking at home, and and for me. I was raised by I grew up on 65 acres in the Central San Joaquin Valley.
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Melinda Gandara: and it could grow anything. And so, when my mother would sit there and say, I need some cilantro. It wasn't going into the refrigerator. It was going outside picking it right, and and to me the earth is so filled with bounty. I have. I love our farmers market, and I spend all my time really in the kitchen cooking. It's my therapy
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Melinda Gandara: we eat well, and I have to say that restaurants here, you know, the pandemic really threw me for a loop.
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Melinda Gandara: and I have to be very careful because I have a immune, compromised husband. And so I've I've tended to just really focus on being able to
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Melinda Gandara: eat at home.
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Melinda Gandara: And I I can do almost anything.
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Hong Lieu: Question for you. Then I 2, 2 recipes. One is like a quick like when you're in a you're trying to just get a meal on the table recipe, and then, when you have time to really prep and go all out, what are those 2 dishes? What in your.
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Melinda Gandara: Okay, the real quick one, I'll be very honest, is Quesadilla. Yes, you know, being able to tortillas together with some cheese. Go put some cilantro, whatever you might have to put into it.
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Melinda Gandara: Absolutely one of my easy to go, and they're satisfying right, and if I don't have cheese, I'll just put avocado right. I love that green butter right. It's just to me. So that's my that's my go to, and that's always been my snack growing up right whenever my mother said, If you can't wait for dinner, get yourself a quesadilla, you know. Just put it there and and put it together.
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Melinda Gandara: When I have a bigger kind of thing. I I love making Mole, you know, all by scratch, and that's just a labor of love. And I'm telling you.
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Melinda Gandara: It's a it's a process. And just being able to do that, and to have the whole kitchen smell, to be able to have all of the ingredients to be able to to see this.
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Melinda Gandara: I think it's very rewarding, and I love Mexican food, I mean, I don't tire from it at all. I grew up eating beans every single day of my life when I was at home.
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Melinda Gandara: and, in fact, when my father
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Melinda Gandara: I grew up pretty much independently, they really didn't. We didn't have a lot of contact. And so my father said to one of his friends, he goes, she doesn't even know what a chocolate bar is.
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Melinda Gandara: And he said, What do you mean? All kids know about chocolate? He goes. I'm going to put out a bowl of beans in one hand and a chocolate bar and see what she does. You know I'm 5 years old. What is she going to go for? I went for the beans. There's something about having beans cooking on the pot, and that was something we had every single day.
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Melinda Gandara: And then when I grew up, I have to just share this with you. Whenever my parents. When I went to college, my mother sent me with a sack of beans and a sack of rice, and she said, that will keep you from ever going hungry, so don't ever call me and tell me you need money for food.
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Melinda Gandara: You're just going to eat that every single day.
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Melinda Gandara: and whenever I had to figure out that I wanted to do something like I wanted to go on a trip or anything, I realized that was my go to. That's how I could save money.
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Melinda Gandara: beans and rice and tortillas, beans and rice and tortillas. As long as I had that
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Melinda Gandara: I never went hungry.
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Hong Lieu: I had the sack of rice with me, too.
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Hong Lieu: Roommates would be like, why do you have a 50 pound bag of rice? And it would take me little years to eat it, but it's like my mom wouldn't let me leave without it, so I had to bring it.
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Melinda Gandara: And I I left with a hundred pound sack of of pinto beans.
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Hong Lieu: Yeah, and that's not easy to carry. Even the 50 pound is a 2 hand like kind of like deadlift. So 100 pounds you you got the dolly for that one or the cart? Yeah.
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Akil Hill: I had a feeling Melinda was a mole person. I was. Gonna say that earlier. I'm like, I bet she makes a mean mole. I just sent my intuition. I I kind of felt it, you know, but the question is, do you cry in the mole like in the like water for chocolate.
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Akil Hill: You cry in the mullet.
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Melinda Gandara: Know I was. Gonna tell you, it's so emotional sometimes the foods that we eat and and because it, you know, this is the year I lost my mother. I can cry on a dime just talking about her.
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Melinda Gandara: and part of it was knowing that whenever she would make Chili Orllenos we would, we would roast the chilies outside. I mean, so much of this idea of food was about also the
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Melinda Gandara: the the community involvement right, this ability to sit there on an open flame, and to do this, and
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Melinda Gandara: could I do, I cry, my mole, if I'm if I'm really sad, even if I'm happy. I can cry very easily, and to me the food, just just the smells and working with our hands. I have to say, you know, as scholars we do a lot of reading, we do a lot of writing, and this is such a a therapeutic way
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Melinda Gandara: to incorporate culture and to use our hands, and to be able to. You know what I love about farmers market is. I am supporting even some of our students who are farmers.
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Melinda Gandara: and to go in there, and to know that this is their hands going into my hands.
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Melinda Gandara: Can't beat that. Just can't beat it.
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Hong Lieu: And Mole is is like, there's there are bases, but it's kind of open ended in terms of spice blends and mixes, and I know we don't. We're not trying to, you know, get any secrets out of you. But at the same time, just like, Yeah, there, there are definitely multitudes there for sure.
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Hong Lieu: Alright, Tomas, you wanna bring us home.
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Thomas Carrasco: I'll just start off with.
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Thomas Carrasco: The Spanish did not invent Mole. Okay.
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Thomas Carrasco: no, they do the stupid thing we're like, Oh, yeah, there's nuns. Oh, hell, no! - you know she Lisbian. So so again going, you know, even when I you know I lecture, I'll connect it to my class, you know. And I say, we're ancient and we're simultaneously modern. Right? Going back to what Melinda was saying. You know.
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Thomas Carrasco: when your mom toast those Chiles man, that is such an ancient smell, right? The concept of toasted cheetahs. And so you know, I so yeah, Santa Barbara is not my thing for food. I'm gonna be straight up right? So like, you know, Oxtar Taco de Mexico, you can get a whole meal for like $9, Santa Barbara 15 right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And so
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Thomas Carrasco: I do love short ribs, Ribeye and Chila Verde. That's my my go to right.
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Thomas Carrasco: But I do like. It's so funny for my conference. I I got burritos from Rudy's and man that conference. So we brought Cheeto in, or these are the the Tucson activists that did workshops on ethnic studies.
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Thomas Carrasco: My our my con. They ate everything right. That was a working class conference, right? I busted up, and I like thai food. Now there's some good thai food like right there off a cliff drive. I don't know what the name of it is.
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Hong Lieu: Moon, fan yeah.
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Thomas Carrasco: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you know, we'll buy like, $500 worth of thai food, you know. Due to all of our Hispanic Institute. Grants.
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Thomas Carrasco: But yeah, so I
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Thomas Carrasco: I really really like thai food a lot, you know. And then also Japanese. I'm down with Japanese man. There's always that good.
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Thomas Carrasco: I forgot Edomami's. I think it's on
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Hong Lieu: Oh, Edo! Masa! On the.
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Thomas Carrasco: Yeah, yeah, it's 1 of my favorite places. Yeah. So those are mine, you know. But I again, you know, living in a multicultural, you know, it's so funny, because when I visited my cousins in New Mexico that aren't pure Spanish, right quote unquote
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Thomas Carrasco: and behind their backs, we say with a little bit of Indian, but that's another great joke. A kill. But you know, after 2 days of Cardinal Adovada right? I was like, Oh, my God, I was like, can we go have some sushi like, Oh, man, you're messed up. You're still from California.
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Thomas Carrasco: I go. Yeah, it's true, you know, like, when I lived in la, it was like, Okay, what do you want to eat? Something good gourmet and cheap? Right? That's la, you know. And so yeah, you know. So there's a in Oxnard. There's Carnitas, my brother.
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Thomas Carrasco: Your launders is really good.
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Thomas Carrasco: there's there's a fit. There's Andreas, fish and chips and and Ventura. So those are my go to like when we like celebrate. I love, you know, fish and chips also from Andreas and and Ventura, so.
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Melinda Gandara: Come on, let's remember your mother's a great cook.
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Thomas Carrasco: Yeah, yeah, I've been trying to lose weight for 30 years. Right?
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Thomas Carrasco: Oh, my.
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Hong Lieu: So you and
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Hong Lieu: you mentioned short rib and ribeye? Yeah. So in terms of preparation for each, are you braising the short rib and then grilling the ribeye, or.
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Thomas Carrasco: So so my mom comes from Kansas. So they used to work for Germans, right? So they're really influenced, like, I don't know, Melinda, what you make. Say, where my mom makes rice and potato salad. That's our. That's our.
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Thomas Carrasco: That's our Chicano meal, right? And so, yeah, my mom makes short ribs, and it's just like carrots, potatoes, and celery and onion right and just like fall off the bone right and so, and then Ribeye is, you know another. As as we're getting older, we're eating less and less right? So my favorite part is just the edge of the ribeye, the most tender.
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Thomas Carrasco: So I will eat right and so, and I splurge, you know again. I'll say it straight out. One of the
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Thomas Carrasco: the things I love about my, you know I try to always make my friends laugh, and so on. The 1st I'll text my friends happy, direct deposit day right? And so I love going to Bristol farms, lazy acres, and buying whatever I want, you know. And so, you know, when I was young, I wasn't able to do that, you know. But yeah, we crack at me and Melinda, the Bristol farms over there on Upper State. I'm like, Dang, I feel like I'm in New York, and nobody's following me, right?
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Thomas Carrasco: So, yeah, those are our go-tos.
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Akil Hill: I was gonna say, since you live in down in Oxnard there's a really good Thai restaurant in 1,000 Oaks. It's called Bangkok Avenue. So if you're ever.
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Thomas Carrasco: Wow!
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Akil Hill: In that area are going up the grade.
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Thomas Carrasco: Avenue. Okay? So if I go to 1,000 folks I will have to take my passport. No, I'm joking.
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Thomas Carrasco: joking, but.
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Hong Lieu: Over the hill, go over the hill.
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Akil Hill: Over the hill you go.
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Thomas Carrasco: Our own Orange County, anyways. What's it called again Kiel.
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Akil Hill: It's called Bangkok Avenue.
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Thomas Carrasco: Wow! I'll be there.
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Akil Hill: And then one of the good. There's so everything's good on the menu but one of the drinks they have is a a Basil a thai basil lemonade. So that's.
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Thomas Carrasco: Oh!
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Akil Hill: Really good. So just fyi on that.
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Thomas Carrasco: Cool right arm. Thank you.
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Hong Lieu: All right, segue, along
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Hong Lieu: higher learning. This is here we go
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Hong Lieu: ringing it up.
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Hong Lieu: Piece of culture.
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Hong Lieu: could be book, movie, music, video game anything y'all like to share that either listeners might find insightful, or something that really affected y'all and change changed your life growing up.
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Hong Lieu: Melinda, do you want to kick us off.
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Akil Hill: One second, I wanna jump in here. I don't want to dictate to to you guys what you guys should say. But I would be curious to know, like, maybe, like your top 3
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Akil Hill: books or movies that you find that someone who is just starting out on the path of ethnic studies or thinking about kind of dabbling with ethnic studies like, what would you guys suggest? Since you guys are professors, I think we, I think. But then tell us anything, but I'm just saying I would. That'd be kind of cool to know as well.
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Melinda Gandara: Well, I'll jump in about my favorites. Veronica Chambers writes for the New York Times, and she did a virtual play called Finish the fight.
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Melinda Gandara: And what I love about that is, it really starts us off with the Women's Suffrage movement, you know, a hundred years ago, and what she has done is that she's highlighted names that were participants, but simply were unrecognized by by
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Melinda Gandara: by everybody to a large degree. And so what she's done is, she has
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Melinda Gandara: done a wonderful play where it's spotlight.
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Melinda Gandara: individual actors who are young, who are using language that is current and they get totally into the role. And when I do this for my students. 1st of all, a lot of them have never been to a live performance, and so to see a virtual play was really exciting.
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Melinda Gandara: and what she does is she brings it to life. So that's 1 of my favorites, and and then to see the the discussion afterwards.
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Melinda Gandara: It's also very important. I think my cat brought in a mouse.
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Hong Lieu: Nice.
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Melinda Gandara: And then the other one, I have to say is, I love Lone Star.
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Melinda Gandara: Lone Star is a John Saylor's film that was produced in 1996. And it's on the borderlands. And it really is a very interesting way of looking at historical past. It's a little bit long.
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Melinda Gandara: and so it tends to be one that's difficult for a lot of people to sit through, but I think it has a lot of merit and value.
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Melinda Gandara: and one of the films I love using in my classes as well is
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Melinda Gandara: Weiwei has a book called Human Flow, a documentary called Human Flow. There's also a book component to it that we have at our library. And that's looking at global migration and looking at the impact. And I think that's so important because this is a dialogue that we need to have.
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Melinda Gandara: And one of the things that what I love about that film in particular is that it highlights
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Melinda Gandara: people instead of statistics, you know, when we were talking about everything earlier, and Thomas is talking about some of the demographics, those are numbers. But when we start putting faces to these numbers and really looking at the human condition, I think that's an important component.
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Melinda Gandara: And one of the things we have to remember is that so many of our students are going to have to be much more flexible about being able to move.
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Melinda Gandara: And when we look at some of the predictions even, for here in Santa Barbara City College in 50 years, is going to look very different because of sea level rising
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Melinda Gandara: and butting right up against that. And what I love about human flow is, he has such an artistic lens that he's able to do that and to look at that
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Melinda Gandara: through that lens. But I'm going to add one more Akil, because probably my my favorite of all is Patricio Guzman does a a beautiful
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Melinda Gandara: three-part documentary on chile.
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Melinda Gandara: and it's called the pearl Button.
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Melinda Gandara: and what he does there is, he will look at the indigenous past, and how Button was an object of trade during the colonial area era, and then he'll pull it forward, and I'll talk about water having memory
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Melinda Gandara: and then pull it forward all of a sudden to the pinochet area, and where they found on one of the rails, where they had tied human people to, and dumped them into the ocean.
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Melinda Gandara: The remnants of a of a button.
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Melinda Gandara: so I think his work to me is powerful. The man has been jailed for his activism, and he does a lovely artistic take on a very difficult subject.
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Hong Lieu: Great choices.
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Akil Hill: Great choices.
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Hong Lieu: Chile specifically speaks to me because there's an old clash song called Washington Bullets. And they did shout out Allende and Victor Harra, and all the
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Hong Lieu: all the activists that that tried. And yeah, and yeah, and the Santiago Stadium and everything. So just
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Hong Lieu: it is.
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Melinda Gandara: Again. Hong, this is the history that people don't know about.
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Hong Lieu: Absolutely!
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Hong Lieu: Alright! Tomas!
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Thomas Carrasco: Okay? So one of my favorite documentaries of all time is black power mixtape.
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Thomas Carrasco: So I'll show that in my
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Thomas Carrasco: in my racism. America classes. This really intertwines art and politics.
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Thomas Carrasco: It's a Swedish
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Thomas Carrasco: Documentarian group
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Thomas Carrasco: documenting the Black power movement in the South, which is really really powerful.
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Thomas Carrasco: and I also like the power of illusion. So when I, when I lecture on biological racism, so my whole thing as a professor is like.
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Thomas Carrasco: they read.
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Thomas Carrasco: I lecture, and then I give them a visual of what I'm doing. So power of illusion is really really good. It just proves that race does not exist. So like in my
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Thomas Carrasco: history of racism class, the whole class is that race does not exist, but racism does. That takes me 16 weeks to teach that right?
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Thomas Carrasco: And then I also really like a lot, is the winds that swept Mexico. It's a really good, beautiful documentary that I use a lot.
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Thomas Carrasco: and then I would just have people pick up. I know it's all like boring, but occupied, America is foundational. Just a really good book, and they have it in Pdf. Too.
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Thomas Carrasco: And then for my students, you know, house on Mango Street is powerful from by Sandra Cisneros, you know, it's just really, really foundational. And
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Thomas Carrasco: yeah, try to
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Thomas Carrasco: And the other ones, I like a lot are fellini movies.
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Thomas Carrasco: So yeah, off the wall. I love Italian culture man, just because the way they do it, you know, it cracks me up.
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Thomas Carrasco: I've always got.
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Akil Hill: Tomasa always has a wild card.
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Thomas Carrasco: Right, no no.
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Akil Hill: Always has a wild card.
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Akil Hill: I'm like, oh, that's that's too much dude.
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Thomas Carrasco: And sometimes I feel like I am in a fellini movie at work.
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Thomas Carrasco: But anyways, yeah, I think you got to mix it up. You know, you always gotta like, you know, the chile. And you know that's 1 of the things as a chicano activist. It's always good to go international, you know, and like, even like Mexico, has a really really powerful cinema Mexican cinema that we need to be more, have more access to. It's right there. So well, those are mine.
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Hong Lieu: And I love these pics because you have a lot of foundational texts and a lot of deep dives. But you also have some things that might kind of just rope in a casual viewer like, you know, house on Mango Street is a book that a lot of folks are reading in in high schools nowadays, junior highs. I mean, you mentioned John Sales, Melinda. If you know brother, from another planet, or or even I mean, you can go into some like 8 men out there's there's some he's made, some more mainstream films.
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Hong Lieu: But then Lone Star is, you know, like a kind of a deeper dive. Neo Western mystery, I mean, it's so. It's 1 of those things where I like John sales, maybe about check this out. Oh, my goodness, what is this saying to me? And then you go do a deeper dive. Even fellini is like, you know. Now just a you know, looked at as a master of the craft. So you might watch a fellini movie and then be like, Oh, this is.
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Hong Lieu: you know, I'm seeing things here that I'm not just seeing in a Marvel movie. What else is there? You know we'll start, you know. You start looking at angles and things like that, and then you might grab something else. So
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Hong Lieu: I love that we have this mix, or you all have shared this mix of just like really foundational texts. But then you have. You have things that are
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Hong Lieu: fun as well, you know, to mix in with all that and just have. It's this really kind of gives you this full picture of what? Of what you're really, what learning is really all about.
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Thomas Carrasco: Thank you.
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Melinda Gandara: You know, I just want to jump in very quickly. Hung one of the things, too. That's been very exciting for me as an instructor is listening to our students, and I have found that they want to have ebooks, you know, and and graphic novels.
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Melinda Gandara: and to be able to have that as a component, and to see our ability to change with them as well. Right to be able to ask questions of what they want from us
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Melinda Gandara: makes it very exciting. And it all pivots, too, with some of the paradigm shifts that we're seeing more broadly. You know the museums are no longer when they talk about American art. It's not just about this, these these painters that are in a very narrow range. Now it's including native American, all going all the way back and looking at Chicano artists, that this is not just somehow collapsing and siloing people. It's really being much more broadly understood.
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Hong Lieu: And it's an interesting shift to analyze. Because, you know, we talk about throughout this episode, we've talked about kind of information that isn't always presented or stuff. That's, you know, there's context there that people aren't getting. There's nuance that is being left out. The Internet was supposed to be this democratizing force that now we have all of this information. Now we have, you know, all the little wrinkles and nuance that you wanted you could get there if you did, you know, like just took the time and looked in these nooks and crannies. But in a way the silos that have existed before
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Hong Lieu: are almost stronger in a way. Where we dive down these wormholes, we have these interests that we dive down in, but we don't really see the force for the trees. It's still happening. So it's 1 of those things where at 1st I was like, well, you know, in a world where you can get all the information, but it's still not that world, because the information is there. But you still need someone to help kind of curate and present things to you in a way that kind of speaks to you, and that's where
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Hong Lieu: the really the strength that you can just feel, the passion for for the work in both of your voices and and the stories you tell, and the things that you're bringing up. I mean, you need that passionate voice to advocate for things, and and in a way to kind of make them interesting for people that might not have known that they even had these interests before to kind of spark, that joy in terms of of subjects that aren't really well covered, because
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Hong Lieu: it's the same thing with music where you can. You have any most recorded music in history is available to you in a matter of within 15 seconds. You can pull up any song you want, but if it doesn't really like, like, speak to you in that way, or like, get your heart thrumming a certain way, or or have a memory tied to it. Do you know, like you need that extra context like where I'd go ask the record store and play. What do you really like? Why do you like it? And they give me some picks, and then, like knowing that it was curated and came from someone else, it really has some extra value there.
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Hong Lieu: and I really feel that when you take an ethnic studies course at Sbcc, that value becomes inherent instantly because you feel the passion, and and not only the passion, but the lived experience that y'all take with you. I mean, y'all, y'all are carrying
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Hong Lieu: kind of like, yeah, just so much. And and it hopefully, it feels somewhat light at times, but at other times it has to be heavy, because that's just, you know, that's the path that y'all have forged so.
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Thomas Carrasco: I think a lot of it is. I'm sorry. A lot of it is. What what keeps me going
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Thomas Carrasco: is the student.
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Thomas Carrasco: you know, like just the student man. It's just amazing. Do you see these lives that are just like, you know again, like teaching? The world is at your feet, even if it's not, that's what you have to think right, you know, and that's what you perform. I'm sorry, Akil, go ahead.
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Akil Hill: No, I was, gonna say, like, I definitely want to echo what Hong was talking about in regards to you and Melinda, you know, I mean, I think
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Akil Hill: you guys are are giants, and you know, I know in the West African tradition, you know, when people take knowledge from their instructor that, you know they sit at their feet, and you know I can testify that
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Akil Hill: you know the impact that you guys had on. You know my life and and my daughter I mean, she took both of you guys classes, and in a lot of ways shaped her on a trajectory that she
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Akil Hill: may have not even known about, and so just wanted to give a shout out to both you guys for really being the giants. And really, you know, allowing our students to come and sit at your feet and and take from what's in your guys breast.
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Akil Hill: And sometimes we don't talk about that enough. We are we? Because we're
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Akil Hill: we're driven by what the end result, if it's an A or B or C or D, but the truth of the matter is, when people are at your feet, and they're taking from your breast. That's
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Akil Hill: that's all the wisdom and and advice and
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Akil Hill: that has been poured into you. You're poured into them. And I've seen it firsthand with with my own daughter. So I just want to thank you guys for what you guys bring to Sbcc, because it's it's it's literally priceless.
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Thomas Carrasco: Thank you so much means a lot.
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Melinda Gandara: Yeah. Thank you. Akil.
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Hong Lieu: Yeah. And when people think about end result, that's that that context to kill is important, because nowadays end result is, what job can I get what what you know. It's this capitalistic mindset where you X highlighting that cultural aspect and really shining a light on how important it is. And it really shows you that with the right cultural kind of currency available to you, you can do anything you want, and you can enjoy.
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Hong Lieu: You know, situations that might not be enjoyable for others, because you have that context and the nuance to really kind of push through and see a better day and and try to work for that better day. So it's it's really
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Hong Lieu: yeah.
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Hong Lieu: thank you for that.
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Hong Lieu: And thank you all, both of y'all for running the gauntlet with us. Thank you.
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Thomas Carrasco: So.
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Hong Lieu: Much for taking the time
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Hong Lieu: before we say goodbye. Any final words, parting shots, shout outs, anything like that?
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Thomas Carrasco: Sakil, Hong. I want to thank you for doing this for our school.
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Melinda Gandara: And I just wanted to say we. We wouldn't have this opportunity if we didn't have such great foundational support from both of you, and I just wanted to thank you both for all your contributions. It's been a joy to call you colleagues.
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Thomas Carrasco: Thank you.
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Akil Hill: Thank you.
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Hong Lieu: Thank you all so much, and thank you, Akilah, as always.
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Hong Lieu: Thank you again. Dr. Thomas Carrasco, Melina Gandara. Thank you so much. It was an honor, and then until next time y'all, this is forgetto voices. Take care, everyone.
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Thomas Carrasco: All right. Take care. Thank you.