Akil and Hong welcome SBCC Women's Basketball coach Sandrine Rocher-Krul for a deep dive on what it means to coach and teach students today. Along the way, the trio discuss humanism, books by Michael Sokolove, Terry Orlick, Frederick Joseph, and TV specials on Colin Kaepernick and Mary J. Blige.
Mentioned in this episode:
SBCC Athletics - https://www.sbccvaqueros.com/landing/index
SBCC Life Fitness Center - https://www.sbcc.edu/physicaleducation/lifefitnesscenter.php
SBCC Physical Education Department - https://www.sbcc.edu/physicaleducation/
SBCC Women’s Basketball Schedule - https://www.sbccvaqueros.com/sports/wbkb/2021-22/schedule
SBCC Men’s Basketball Schedule - https://www.sbccvaqueros.com/sports/mbkb/2021-22/schedule
AAU (“Oversees” Club Basketball) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_Athletic_Union
Warrior Girls - Protecting our Daughters Against the Injury Epidemic in Women’s Sports by Michael Sokolove - https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Warrior-Girls/Michael-Sokolove/9780743297561
MTXE (Mental Toughness, Extra Effort) - https://thestrive.co/mtxe/
In Pursuit of Excellence by Terry Orlick - https://us.humankinetics.com/products/in-pursuit-of-excellence-5th-edition
UCLA Drill - https://www.online-basketball-drills.com/ucla-shooting-drill
Ellen O’Connor on Vaquero Voices - https://sbcc-vaquero-voices.simplecast.com/episodes/episode-17-ellen-oconnor
The Black Friend - On Being a Better White Person by Frederick Joseph - https://www.theblackfriendbook.com/
Mind Gym: An Athlete’s Guide to Inner Excellence by Gary Mack and David Casstevens - https://www.mhprofessional.com/9780071395977-usa-mind-gym-group
Colin in Black and White - https://www.netflix.com/title/80244479
Mary J. Blige’s My Life - https://www.amazon.com/Mary-J-Bliges-My-Life/dp/B095XNNWFL
Coffee With a Black Guy - https://www.cwabg.com/
Terence Crawford vs. Shawn Porter Results - https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/32678649/terence-crawford-defeats-shawn-porter-10th-round-tko-retain-welterweight-title
Captions Provided by Zoom
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Hong Lieu: hello, and welcome to another episode of SBCC Vaquero Voices - a podcast highlighting the unique voices that comprise our campus culture, and how we're all working together to serve our students and the community at large. as usual i'm joined by co host Akil Hill.
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Akil Hill: what's good?
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Hong Lieu: And today we're honored to welcome Sandrine Rocher-Krul to the show. welcome sandrine!
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Akil Hill: coach coach sanjay.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Yes, thank you so much, thank you for having me.
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Hong Lieu: But I mean coaching is you know it's a part of your job description, but you do other things as well, you you teach classes and you, you help help work at the life in the Center Is that correct you just kind of run down a little bit of everything that you do here.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Yes, so full time faculty tenure instructor in the p athletics department, so I have dual roles, so my full time teaching load, which I teach intro to Can you see ology that's a lecture major class boxing spinning fitness Center and then basketball practice.
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Hong Lieu: wow wow yeah that's.
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Hong Lieu: And that's that's a full load because I mean that's multiple disciplines boxing is a full on like like full blown discipline.
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Hong Lieu: basketball full blown discipline and just being an instructor and having you know and doing introduction to kinesiology which is it's a whole entire industry so you're kind of.
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Hong Lieu: shepherding three different career paths for folks if they so choose to so that's.
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Hong Lieu: that's a lot, I mean it's a lot for you to kind of keep up with and stuff I mean is, is there, I mean i'm sure the classes help a little bit in terms of being that therapy and that release, but how do you juggle all this and do it so well, I mean I guess.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know I think what you have to understand is when you go into teaching coaching, especially at the Community college level.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know what you signed up for and it's a good thing, it really is, I mean because I get to coach a different.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: avenue of students who are athletes and then I get the general exerciser and then I get the students who want to go into the field of kinesiology.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So it's really it's actually really nice it, yes, it is a lot of work, but I love it, I always tell everyone, I mean 13 hour days are very simple for us.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But it doesn't feel like that, because you're doing what you absolutely love what your passion is, and so it seems like a lot to a lot of people, but it wouldn't work if I don't if I didn't have a good support system.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: In my family life in my work life that's why it works like everyone really comes together to make sure that i'm not burnt out.
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Hong Lieu: yeah and that's that's that's important to mention terms that burnout mitigation it a lot of it is does come from the self in terms of being able to sustain certain things.
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Hong Lieu: But that support system around you is is very key so it's good to note that and good good for folks that you know, to think about their own support systems and kind of see.
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Hong Lieu: What they have in terms of what they need what they need if they don't have what they kind of need to kind of help mitigate these kind of things, but I do have 13 hour days I mean that's.
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Hong Lieu: Really.
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Hong Lieu: So So where are we in the basketball season right now.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: As okay yeah.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Sorry for cutting you.
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Hong Lieu: know no no you're good.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And so right now we're in prison preseason so with women's basketball and men's basketball we're a two semester sport.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So we start in August, which that is our preseason and then season starts October 1 game starts November 1 so we've been going since August 23.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And we don't end until the spring, which is march so in once for season of basketball there's actually four seasons and so you have your offseason preseason in season and postseason so right now we're in season.
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Hong Lieu: So you talk about bread yeah you talk about the burnout mitigation, how do you keep players kind of engaged.
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Hong Lieu: across that many kind of stretches I mean I mean I I play a lot of basketball my favorite sport to play.
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Hong Lieu: But in terms of like an organized basketball person i'm not a practice person like I just it just doesn't interest me while I was there I was bad at preparing for things in general but.
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Hong Lieu: In terms of keeping folks engaged and keep them kind of driven me they know what the ultimate goal is, of course, but but in terms of as a coach, how do you kind of keep them keep their mindsets kind of fresh and just pushing because it's a long grind you know it's a long season.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Oh, we say that it's a grind, and so the I think teaching coaching for 20 years and.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I have lived by this philosophy for 28 years if you can't get it done and two hours of practice then we're doing something wrong, and so, for example.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know, we practice three to five, you know weights on Monday Tuesdays that's two to five with our strength coach.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But they need days off they need time to reflect, they need time to be away from the basketball court we don't practice on the weekends, we don't practice at 6am.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So that gives them this balance for these you know incoming freshmen or sophomores that they know that Monday through Friday, it is a grind.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But they're going to have the weekend they're going to have their time to study, there are times in practice where we might just go an hour and 20 and watch film.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So we can again just it's all about balance and i've never been that coach to say hey we got to spend 30 hours a week it's actually.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: wrong to do that because kids burnout and we have to remember, I know they're 18 and I know that they're freshmen or sophomores in college, but you know they're still.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: There still human and they still need time away and they still need time to reflect, they need to build their support system.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So for us like I said, you know Monday through Friday, you know we're in that grind we're loving it we're doing what we have to do, but you have to give breaks, you have to let them know it's okay.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: To be away from your sport for a little bit so then on Monday you're fresh mind body and spirit and you want to be here because they're not on scholarship there solely playing because they love it.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And so, with all that being said, if we're on a tournament like we had a tournament Friday Saturday Sunday Monday is off we and we had a game on Wednesday.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The Monday is off, I mean for three days you were competing at a high level, but before those three days you were practicing five days so that's eight days in a row, it would be.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: horrible if I didn't give them that time off, they would then say this is too much, and they would quit.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And then they wouldn't have that team spirit of yeah I really want to be there, so getting periodic breaks is key to not burning them out because our Conference schedule doesn't start till January, and I want to have the same amount of players that I started in August in January.
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Akil Hill: Right.
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Akil Hill: I will say I do recognize last week, and this is i'm gonna have to self disclose but last week and I was at raising canes and i'm.
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Akil Hill: sitting there game with my mom and I looked up and I saw the the women's basketball team in line.
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Akil Hill: So they're down getting some reason canes and I, it was cool because they didn't see me, but I was watching their dynamic amongst each other and everybody was having a good time and.
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Akil Hill: You know, one of what I think one car was going through the drive through, and then a couple of players were walking in and they're like oh you're on the drive to make room, so they ran over to the car.
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Akil Hill: And they all squeezed in it just took me back to like.
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Akil Hill: You know the days of being young when you just did things like that you know, so I was, I was happy to see them off the Court and still having a good time and still in each other's company.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Yes, and you know this year akil we had you know, right now, we have 13 freshman playing.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And that is you know the basketball stuff is you know will win Games will lose games, but I don't I don't really care about that I care, I mean i'm competitive, and I want to win.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But I care about what you just said, a keel they're hanging out on the weekend they're having a good time they like each other that's when I know that we've done a good job.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: That they want to be around each other that it's not and they're competing for the same spot for the same playing time but they understand the bigger picture it's really to build a family unit.
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Hong Lieu: yeah it is what you always talk about folks at work or Nice organization, where you spend more time with these folks you do with your own family, or we do at your own house.
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Hong Lieu: So you got to figure out a way to make make it work and just just come together so it's good to see that that.
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Hong Lieu: The things that you're espousing are kind of sticking and working and it just as a team that everyone's coming together, I mean, I guess, if you could speak a little bit on.
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Hong Lieu: on how this season is different, I know you know coming off of last season, you know, last year just sports in general being just in disarray.
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Hong Lieu: And kind of slowly like a soft opening easing back end but uh but i'm sure for y'all.
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Hong Lieu: It was just a minute, you had a chance to we're just you know all in So if you could just talk about what this season has been like or.
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Hong Lieu: Or how you had to prepare differently and with all these freshmen I mean that's that's probably a different thing as well, because you had a whole year of not playing last year, so.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah you know it's the most interesting part about having 18 months away from basketball.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: It was great to be back in the gym I mean even my staff are like oh my God we get our coaching legs back right.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The with the freshman some of them haven't played in 22 months, and so, for then the learning curve is a little steeper so typically.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: we're understanding complex systems, you know, like run past shoot defend run your offense run your quick break.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: This group coming back in it's just not my team it's everybody across the state from you know my friends saying hey are you having this Yes, you are you having that issue they're just not getting it and i'm like yes, so what that means is we spend a lot more time teaching.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Oh, like running an offense that normally would take in a practice, you know 10 minutes right you're learning going through all the options Well, this is taking 30 minutes.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But we knew that was going to happen, because the incoming freshmen who didn't play last year or Michael vick team, where I only had three players last year, who came back because the sophomores moved on.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Which is great they're in Chicago playing loving it they're in Hawaii playing loving it's amazing there in Boston playing loving it.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But for us, we have we had to scale back where we want it to be at this point in time, because it's and it's okay to do that, because they will get it, but they're going to grow.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Every single day just a little bit slower and full disclosure, I have to be very patient, and I have to remind myself like why aren't they getting it like we throw the Defense out there, they know the offense.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But they they haven't played against Defense consistently enough, so we need more patients, we understand that we had to scale back and my whole goal for this freshman team is.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: To make them understand that failure is not fatal if, like we lost a game on Wednesday, that we played so hard and that's really all I care about because the winds will come.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But it is harder for them to understand that concept that your wins will come, because you are doing the right thing you're playing so hard you're so coachable.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But we have to fix it, we have to fix and you have to be a little bit vulnerable, you have to allow.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The players have to allow themselves selves to say you know what that wasn't my best and it's Okay, the sun is still going to raise tomorrow we're still going to have practice we're still going to watch film no one's telling you you're terrible, but allow yourself that own growth.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: hope that made sense I know.
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Hong Lieu: It makes a lot of sense even.
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Hong Lieu: me as just.
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Hong Lieu: a lay person basketball player like when I was 19 and 20 and just my recovery time was at its peak I was able to kind of just my brain in my body were perfectly in sync like.
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Hong Lieu: I didn't I was less apt to listen to those kind of words, and I want to just kind of bulldoze my way on the Court and just kind of make things happen that way now as a 14 year old two.
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Hong Lieu: roles and ankle and can't walk for three days like those words just resonates so deeply with me and and it just like you're wondering percent you know, on the money right there and and and just just preaching pure wisdom so yeah absolutely.
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Akil Hill: You know i'd be kind of curious to hear your thoughts, a little bit on it, you know, I think that, right now, I mean we're such a sports driven culture in this country and.
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Akil Hill: You know, I have a daughter and she's she's an athlete I was an athlete I played basketball but nowadays it seems like with all the travel ball all the non stop.
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Akil Hill: games people driving to La all these things do you feel or do you have you noticed that.
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Akil Hill: That players are harder on themselves because of that or what's what's your thoughts on that i'm kind of curious to kind of hear what you have to say about that the whole club travel and the amount of of the sport.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I know i'm not going to be popular when I say this, I never, never have been a fan of club basketball, I think, playing year round to these kids who are you know 12 to 17 is a disservice to them.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Because once they get to high school they get burnt out because they're playing year round.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: i'm always and i've always been a fan, you have to play multiple sports between 12 and 17 and one there's a great book out there, called the warrior girl, and in the book, it talks about the more sports you play when you're younger.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Different sports, the less injured, you are, as you in mature through your sports and but now you get club coaches I kid you not at 13 years old.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Tell us an athlete you have to choose the sport at 13 really why do I have to choose the sport.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: i'm 13 if I love volleyball I should be able to play volleyball during different seasons, if I love softball.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And that's why I should be able to play, both of them, because what that does playing multiple sports, yes, it reduces their risk of severe injuries, especially in women acl injuries.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But what it also does is it gives them an avenue to be.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: accepted in different arenas in their sports season as a softball player basketball volleyball because each sport has a different sport, culture.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And you're limiting them that ability to learn to get along with different diverse groups different personalities so i've never been I mean i'm not.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: i'm not a fan in Santa Barbara with these club sports i'm not and and the amount of money they pay is astronomical I know i've never understood.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Another thing and i'm not saying that club sports doesn't have a place.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: It needs to be regulated see club sports are not regulated so you have coaches, who haven't even taken an intro to kinesiology class haven't even taken.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: psychology class on how to motivate if you're coaching girls it's different motivational factors and techniques and you coach boys and then a lot of times it's these parents that are coaching.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know so i've dedicated my life to the field of teaching and coaching and these clubs sports, they can charge anything they can.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: schedule practice at any time, they can burn these kids out and no one says anything and so it's not that i'm against clubs forth it's just not regulated, and it is doing a disservice to our younger.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Student athletes because, by the time they were senior in high school they don't want to play, I was recruiting a player last year covert year.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: She was so oh my gosh she was if we had our we would need to know and that three and three her, she was a great shooter and she's an SPC see that she's burnt out of playing basketball.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Ah that's never happened we never want to take away the love, in the spirit of someone to play a game that they do love it's just she's burnt out.
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Hong Lieu: And from an equity perspective I knew a bunch of parents who their kids were really good at promise, but the thing is.
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Hong Lieu: All we have to, I have to pay this much for hotel rooms and for a plane right to this tournament in Texas or either pay this much for this and it and it's.
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Hong Lieu: it's one of those questions where I mean there, there has to be another way, I mean i'm not even sure if there is a better way, but there has to be another way, but in terms of your point.
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Hong Lieu: of playing multiple sports, I mean from from basic physical perspective just working on different muscle groups different sport play different muscle groups.
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Hong Lieu: But from a mental perspective as well you know there's there's the team sport aspect, and then the individual sport aspect of like tennis or golf.
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Hong Lieu: Where you're you're you're working against yourself and some of those sports were very hard for me because I always beat myself up as a kid normally and so so even more so, and having to work through kind of those situations, you know.
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Hong Lieu: Digital sport versus a piece for the team sports Okay, a couple plays I can take plays off here, you know I did good on this possession, maybe this this now i'll i'll slack a bit, but you know.
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Hong Lieu: Eventually work out of that as well, but, but this the different mental perspectives different kind of focus, you have to get in if you want to get into like that flow that flow state, I mean it's a different kind of.
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Hong Lieu: You know there's there's so many differences and little nuances of the sport, I definitely see where you're coming from with with trying to expose folks to to the the wide range that exists out there.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And let me add on to that also what i'm noticing, especially with this incoming because it's relevant this incoming freshmen.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: A lot of where they came from in their sports in high school.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The coaches did not teach any mental toughness training so back in the day at city college, I used to teach a class called mental toughness competition motivation athlete.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And that was a great lecture class, it was a short term class and we taught to be mentally tough.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: it's a learned skill, you have to teach it so i'm receiving these kids from high school, they have zero coping mechanisms they have zero.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: ability to understand what motivation is so we're doing a lot of that now and that's what i'm saying when we're behind the eight ball little bit.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: physically on the Court it's not their physical aspect it's their mental aspect so and that was a great point because yesterday.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I sent them the mental toughness quiz I do you know your mental toughness because we talked a lot about it my programs model and the foundation of what we do.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: is one based in humanism, I am the humanist through and through and so that's my philosophy, but the model that is attached to that is empty xe.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Mental toughness extra effort it's on my wall in my office it's tattooed on my body it's on our gear it's empty xe mental toughness extra effort and i'm teaching.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: them without mental toughness there is no extra effort and if there's no extra effort there's no mental toughness, but you have to learn it you don't just wake up one day and say.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know today i'm going to be mentally tough, you can it, it is a learned skill, so we do a lot of that too it's not just x's and o's it's mental toughness it's motivational techniques.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: However, I am not a psychologist and there are now these incoming freshmen they have a lot more.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Obligations away from the Court that i'm not equipped to deal with, and my my goal for Community college women's basketball across the state is, we need to have sports psychologists on hand because more is required of them not meaning school and basketball, they have to work.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: they're not on scholarship so they play for the pure enjoyment and love to get that scholarship because I do have a 97% rate of getting them academic and athletic scholarships, but.
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Akil Hill: yeah but, before the axon those FLEX.
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Akil Hill: On it oh I love it.
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Hong Lieu: I love that's a great that's a great.
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Hong Lieu: People yeah people need to know.
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Akil Hill: hey Sandra.
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Akil Hill: let's say one more time.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: 7% rate of getting our kids academic and athletic scholarships because that's what i'm going to do for them, since they're not on scholarship now.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So if you go to our website everything i'm telling you is on there where they transfer to my goal is one, they must matriculate.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Whether it's to a four year or maybe vocational they played two years and they don't want to play anymore okay well let's see what your passion is let's see where we can get you.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So I know that's not part of my job description, but that's what I do for them, because they do give me so much they give me their time they give me.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Their mental and physical capabilities to be successful, so that's one way I can give back to them is i'm going to send the film out i'm going to put you on the database all over division one, two and three.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know i've had players play for me the pre coven and one player said, you know coach I had such a great time but I don't want to play anymore.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I just want to go she transferred in northridge and I said well let's find some free money let's wait, how can we get that academic scholarship so we would meet.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And because they don't know how to navigate that aspect you know and their parents don't know you know so that's one thing that I love doing is when they matriculate they graduate.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And they go whether it's to a four year or whether they're going to go into Cosmetology or the fire academy or the police academy.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know that's where we are a stepping stone, but I will tell you it is getting harder and harder.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: To have students understand that we're all on the same team here like I may tell you my practice like.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: you're right now, like you're not giving me your all so you find out why however don't just listen to me I film every single practice every single one.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: After practice we upload it they get it so review your practice, what do you think's going on, is it mentally as a physically, is it emotionally, is it socially, is it intellectually.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And then we have a thing, called the golden nugget.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You get three golden nuggets a season, a golden nugget is coach i've watched practice film I just need a break.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I can't come to practice no questions asked unless they say i'm really struggling then i'm like okay resources resources where can I help you.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So they're like i'm going to use my golden nugget no questions as they come back and they love being there but high school.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: coaches club coaches they're not doing any of that So then, when we get on it's so it breaks my heart because emotionally.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Being 18 chronologically they're considered adults but they don't have those coping mechanisms as an adult.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So yes, I may not win a conference championship or a State championship, but my kids are going to be mentally well physically well and they're going to matriculate.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And, and then, if they don't want to do that that's Okay, too, you know let's just find a path for you that's my job, my job is not to be your friend.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: My job is to direct you in the path that you want to be in that gives you the success, once you leave here and the greatest honor is when they come back and they chant they have empty empty tattooed on their body.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: A lot of them do that is so nice.
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Akil Hill: that's awesome.
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Hong Lieu: yeah cuz I mean mental toughness is something that you can't drill it's not something you can really measure like wingspan and it only comes out in those moments.
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Hong Lieu: You know, like it you don't know you have it until you absolutely need it so it's not I mean you can do everything you can to prepare them.
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Hong Lieu: For that moment, but you can't know that they're ready until that moment comes and they and they demonstrate that they're ready so it's.
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Hong Lieu: it's a real that's that's I mean it's one of those things where you really trusting yourself and trusting the team that that that.
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Hong Lieu: everyone's on the same page and we're all going to get there, so that's that's really just it just I mean just demonstrating that trust probably accounts for like 80% of the way there so.
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Hong Lieu: it's really um but but yeah it's just such an innocuous concept, but everyone knows what it is.
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Hong Lieu: But in terms of yeah, how do you grab that, how do you I mean yeah it's not like measuring someone's wingspan or their or their vertical leap.
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Hong Lieu: To be like okay they're this and that we've got to get them to hear mental it's like it's like a light switch flipped it's like that flow state to talk about being in the zone, so to speak.
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Hong Lieu: And you get there until you get there you'll never know how to get back so it's yeah it's a tough one.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: know exactly, and you know the book that I use a lot of my techniques comes from the pursuit of the pursuit of excellence from tori Terry or like and he talks about being in that flow state, but I have to tell you, or whoever is going to listen to this.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The incoming freshman class, you know they they struggle with that concept, because it wasn't taught to them in those foundational years you know, to build that mind body spirit.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And so they come to us so, for example, right now, we're having players who the stress of a game.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: is causing them to decrease performance, so we know that as coaches So what do we do to get them to understand that stress of a basketball game.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: is good to have you want to be in that position to where the game is tied, and you have to run a play Those are all great feelings.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But to stay in the zone or that don't make it bigger than what it is just a game.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's all it is, but we want you to have success in that so that's why we do or mental toughness drills that's why we do our motivational.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: technique quiz mental toughness quiz that's where we do our building of characteristics.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: worksheet so it's it's a lot of teaching it's not about the x's and o's, but it is getting harder as a coach.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: For a team to buy in when I first started i'm 51 years old, I was a head coach at Santa Monica high school when I was 22 years old, I didn't know what I was doing I don't know why they hire me.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And, but I learned from that team, when I was 22 years old, that basketball the x's and o's helps you win games.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But the mental and emotional health of that student athlete is so much more important than the x's and o's fast forward 2021.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: To have a team understand that we're all on the same team here, I do have to challenge you, I do have to point out your mistakes, but i'm going to do it objectively.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: By filming practice filming every game, giving you a productivity chart of how you produce not just your stats but how you were producing in the game.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So we have this productivity chart that we give them after games 24 hours and it's based on their minutes what they did well in the game and you get a plus or minus at the end.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And so, if you're in the negative find out why you were negative 10 you know what what could you do to improve so they know exactly what they need to improve, but here lies the problem.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Oh, my gosh I was negative 10 I did so bad no you didn't do that you did bad in Category assists in category of turnovers.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's what you say good and bad we don't talk about good and bad we talk about improvement.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So, but it's getting harder and harder for them to really understand that we're all on the same team.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: That, if I tell you, you didn't make the up and back in 30 seconds is because objectively, we have the clock and it said you didn't make it i'm not making that up that's your body of work.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But it's okay next time you're going to get better you're not gonna be punished for not making it you're going to get better over time so allow yourself that own grace to say you know what I wasn't there yet, but I will be there tomorrow yeah.
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Akil Hill: yeah.
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Akil Hill: Go ahead on hitting.
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Akil Hill: No, I you know I i'm listening in, and this, especially the piece for on the mental toughness and.
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Akil Hill: I feel like you know I just my mind is kind of going in a direction of like how that is related to so much of our culture where, if we look at.
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Akil Hill: Probably like what you were saying when you first started coaching the buy in was real and it was happening a lot quicker culturally I think now it's like, how do we.
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Akil Hill: The mental piece of how do we.
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Akil Hill: As a culture.
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Akil Hill: I guess what i'm trying to say is i'm trying to figure out the right way to word this but i'm thinking like right now, like.
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Akil Hill: Children are young kids these days young adults expect things quicker right, and so, in other words like there's this our culture in our society everything happens like this rapid right, and so, then.
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Akil Hill: it's like either all or nothing and, and so what i'm listening i'm hearing you talk i'm like yeah that.
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Akil Hill: is related to your your team in general, but to think outside of that your team that's a cultural piece that we we are struggling with as a coach or just in general, like being able to.
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Akil Hill: Work and and on our mental toughness and understanding that failure is okay, but when you got your parents.
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Akil Hill: hovering over you trying to solve the problem don't want me to fail, keeping up with the joneses all that impacts every aspect of your life and that's what i'm hearing you know and.
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Akil Hill: And so that's that's that's all that I had to say about that piece it's like yeah that I really can relate to that you know.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Account one of the most important things, and a lot of people don't know that I do this, but with my team I.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: years from now back when I first started I call it cultural wealth so every player that I coach they have a cultural well.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And I asked questions they do a questionnaire like they have their handbook and I want to know what your experience is was prior to me coaching and prior for them coming to sbc.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So we take all that data from them and I need to make sure that i'm coaching the players, based on where they came from, but it's difficult so, for example, right now, have a player, where she is a woman of color and when she where she came from, nobody ever said, you could be something.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: No one ever said basketball could get you a free education she's playing solely because she loves it and it gives her.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: For two hours she doesn't have to worry about any of her family problems and so when i'm coaching her, and I know this about her and we me and I said, you know, let me tell you something.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You have self worth because you're here in Santa Barbara you made it work so that voice in your head that said that you don't have to play basketball, or you don't have.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: To be like really anything or Why are you doing this you're here now, you did it check done success, and so in the part with her, because she is a woman of color I am white.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: My skin colors never been a barrier, I had i've had barriers so my skin colors never been a barrier, but for this player.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I want to make sure that she knows we're going to champion her because we see her we understand her.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And I don't know what it's like to be a woman of color but i'm going to listen and i'm going to make sure that we give her the representation.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: My staff mirrors who i'm teaching and coaching and I have to say that because that's so important to kill, we have to know where our players come from culturally.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: religiously spiritually intellectually, because that does impact them, and so one of the biggest stereotypes, we have across the state when i'm recruiting which has bothered me for many years is.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Oh Santa Barbara you're just a bunch of white girls and that bothers me, because that is not true.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And it's not true because we want to be diverse in Santa Barbara and we aren't diverse, so we have to as a staff break down those barriers and let everybody know that if you are Hispanic Mexican Latin Latin X.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: African American black hawaiian you have a place here that we have to show that representation so going back to what you are saying eq.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I take their culture well so much more important than I do prepping for a game.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Because where they came from there's reasons why they do the things they do and it's and it's not to be a barrier for them it's to be a bridge for them.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But I get to do it with a basketball but i'm also very intense and I have to teach them that my intense and being intense with you on the Court.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's my coaching persona, but when we're meeting we're talking about you, one on one on how I could be that bridge to help you succeed.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Because one i'm great at finding scholarship money and great at finding scores for you.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: you're not a D one player, you might be, you might be division three division two let's not talk about that let's talk about where you want to go.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Like think big get out of California think like what is your biggest wish school.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And then, once we start having those conversations they know that i'm going to show up for them i'm going to champion them but i'm also going to challenge them, but that is the hardest part.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: This year is the freshman understanding that challenge, does not mean that you don't belong challenge means you're going to get through this challenge with love and respect because that's what i'm giving you, but let me tell you it's hard.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: it's hard.
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Hong Lieu: And it's one of those things where like if you grew up and had those kind of hard challenges that you speak of I mean, then you you kind of innately kind of know what you're talking about what your your expectations.
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Hong Lieu: But it's also a good thing to not have to go through those challenges, growing up.
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Hong Lieu: Like when you when I hear you say that people don't know how to feel like that's great you know part of it is great because.
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Hong Lieu: That means that growing up, they haven't put been putting those situations where that failure is such this like.
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Hong Lieu: death knell that they have that it really crushes it because.
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Hong Lieu: I mean, in my childhood, I was crushed many times and built back up you know from you know I my my my parents are part of the crushing but in hindsight.
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Hong Lieu: It was it was good for me in terms of who I was individual but it, but at the same time.
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Hong Lieu: I you know, like it would do what I wish that and other people I don't know so it's it's what I hear you say that that still needs to be cultivated that kind of it's definitely something needs to be worked on, but at the same time.
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Hong Lieu: it's refreshing to hear, because every everyone I knew my age went through that four or five times over, as a child going through some crazy unbelievable stuff so so in some respects it's a net positive but yeah I can see where where where there's there's definitely both sides to that.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And we call that failing up so when we're coaching.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: we're not going to play perfect that the game of basketball is not perfect, so we want to fail up meaning if we lost a game, we can go back and practice and fix that.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: If we lost the game because of a lack of effort not caring then that's that leads to a bigger conversation so like with my freshman team.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: They allow me to coach them, they are so great, but we've had i've had more conversations watching film with them.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know, watching you know going over the productivity char going over practice film game film i've done a lot more of that and it dawns on me it's like.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: wow like they they don't understand this as a safe space they can say wow I did not get that rebound coach I really didn't and that's okay.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And I said because look at the next one, you got the rebound yesterday, in practice, I just have to share this.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: We have a drill called UCLA it took us an hour to get it down an hour, they have to get to 300 points no problem.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I said, one thing at our 50 because it's a five minute drive our 55 or minute 55 I said stop worrying about the shots you're missing it doesn't matter.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The shots don't matter I care about that you're going to go again and you're going to try again just by me saying the shots that you missed don't matter they got two 376 376.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And i'm like I should have said that 55.
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Akil Hill: minutes ago.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know, but those are little things that they hold on to something like miscellaneous and then I have players who say you don't yell at me enough and and I.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Nobody deserves to be yelled at you know we we are here to coach you and empower you I don't like to be yelled at so we can challenge through dialogue.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Oh, my high school coach always yell that being got my face well i'm sorry that is not who I am and that's not it and I will never aspire to do that.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So being intense and driven they just have to understand that that looks different than someone yelling at them and someone being in their face, because in practice yeah we get excited but.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: it's never cursing the mountain their face never throwing chairs it's the going back to where they came from that was their experience.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So you know I don't say that I do it right or that I mean I don't say that I do it the best that I know that i'm doing it right, but it is getting harder and harder for that buying that you know that well here's The thing that came up a kill you brought in by in.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: coach when I first met you I thought you were fake i'm like what what does that mean you're always happy.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I see you coming from your class you go hey how are you doing you're talking to everybody, you go the office you're getting ready for practice you're still happy and, unlike.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's not fake that's authentic I love being at school teaching I love it, I mean it has awarded me many benefits that that is a privilege and I take that and I value that I revere that but that's what they think when someone's always had this is yet and then.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: They think.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's.
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Akil Hill: Probably a lot of the cases, some people that have never been around people that are really like happy, you know to me like that's like everywhere, the spaces that they occupy they may have just never seen anyone truly authentically happy, you know.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And really vulnerable like I tell them.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I messed up, they have as an authority figure I am the authority figure because i'm their coach if we're talking about basketball, they have to let you know that i'm human too.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And I always tell him, I do not have an ego I have an ego because I do want to win basketball games for you i'm not going to get a bonus If I win certain amount of games.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You get the benefits, so when if we lose a game, or if we if a play doesn't work I do say, well, we should not have run that plan i'm okay to tell me that that was the wrong state that was the wrong place.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So they could see that we're still good we're still going to teach and coach and and get better and then we're vulnerable ourselves and and we're growing the minute I stopped growing is the minute I have to retire.
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Hong Lieu: yeah there, there are way too many quote unquote professional environments where people mistake kindness for weakness.
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Hong Lieu: And it's one of those things where that manifest and that becomes this this this thing that's good to look to be skeptical of be suspicious of.
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Hong Lieu: But if, but if you've had a difficult life you've come into some measure of success it's easy to be happy, all the time yeah like i'm i'm a pretty jovial person because of.
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Hong Lieu: Things i've seen things i've been through and yeah, this is not that bad compared to that you know so it's easy to have a smile on my face a lot of the day, so.
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Hong Lieu: But yeah so as well as things where you should never mistake kindness for weakness and never you know just mistake many things for weakness, whatever it kindness, or what but just happens to be that positive kind of situation like that good good good twisted a lot.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Well, I want to, I want to model, this is one of the one of the benefits of teaching and coaching I want a model when i'm teaching.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: in real life, so if, if I can make someone else's job easier i'm going to do that if i'm going to help my team get better i'm going to do that if I have to.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Tell a player, you know missing three days of practice no call no nothing, then we have to have a conversation about that, but I want, I have to model that because that's what I say, and I think.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: That this incoming generation, you know or the 13 freshmen that i'm coaching 14 freshmen that i'm coaching it just takes a lot more energy and mentally I mean there are days I come on i'm so tired when I come home, I sent my chair like this and, like, I feel like I ran a marathon.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And then my husband would say you should you should.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: He gives me know grace.
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Hong Lieu: So say segue speaking of cultural well speaking of where you came from, if you want to just touch on.
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Hong Lieu: What brought us PCC or the path that you took you know leading up to coming here and then your time here, you could just spend a little time on that and and that'll kind of give us a little more info on.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah let me it is, it is a what it was a wild ride on how I got to NSPCC so I was add on for 13 years and, before I started SPC at 33 years old.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I was teaching and coaching at more at La valley college and then I went to more part and I was the Co head coach there for six years and the head coach at the time.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: was going to step down, so I was going to take over, and I was, I was going to be at moorpark college like that's where.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: It was, where I was said I was teaching boxing there, I was doing everything i'm doing it SPC, but it was adjunct so I had to teach in pasadena I had to teach at.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: National university, I had to teach French in English and all these other institutions, and it was getting a grind, so this is what happened, this is why I believe in the powers of the universe and i'm in practice and our ad at the time, said hey sbc is.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: interviewing for full time tenure track women's basketball, and in this is a man that I call a mentor he was fantastic.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: He just a lot of the tenants that I have now my philosophy comes from him and i'm like oh my God you don't want me to coach you're like oh my gosh like, why are you trying to get rid of me.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: He said tendering, it is full time tenure track your coaching at three other different colleges and coaching at moorpark and teach I mean teaching it three other different colleges.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You need to be at one place just apply so i'm like Okay, I understand now like my feelings aren't hurt like he's looking out for me, and so I applied I kid you not.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I didn't hear anything for like a month, and so I tell them i'm like yeah see you made me apply it wasn't meant to be i'm here is supposed to be at moorpark.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Well then, I get a call you you're you get an interview now I have known Ellen as a competitor she was the previous head coach coach for 14 years i've known her as a competitor because I was at moorpark she's at Santa Barbara one in the same conference, she is very big on our committees.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And I go into the interview and ellen's there and I was scared of Ellen.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And I was coaching against her.
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Yes.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Like intimidated me.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: he's the nicest woman ever.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Absolutely so i'm in this interview and i'm like oh Mike.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So we do the interview it's all great Cathy o'connor's they're.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: All the older ED previous football coach previous basketball coach I leave their my husband's in my children are in the car.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And my daughters two at the time, my son is six and i'm like okay well, that was a bus let's go to the Pier and have dinner.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And you know my kids are little at the time and they're having a great time on the Pier and john and I are sitting there and i'm like I wouldn't really be great to go cheer like we could bring the kids to the beach like it'd be.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So great I don't hear anything for another month, unlike yep I told you john it was a bust.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So the Ad the Ad at the time, says, you should just call Ellen like she was on the committee.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So I call her, I was so nervous, because you know she can't tell me, you know what's happening she can just say you know you can call HR if you didn't get the job why you didn't get they not why but blah blah blah.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So I kind of she's like why nobody's called you I said no, I don't I haven't heard anything she say give me five minutes.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: She calls me back in five minutes and she's like there was a MIC said they haven't called anybody so just be on the lookout for an email, and the next week.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I get a second interview so so, then you know I get the job it's all great, and it was wonderful it was it was it was a very hard experience to go through, because this is what we it's very difficult to obtain a full time position.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: tenure track at the Community college level, it is very difficult.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And so that's why I revere it so much that's why I show up for people that's why I am on committees, you know my I have my faculties routing committees, I also have my coaching duties within the state to be on committees, because of basketball.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But I show up because Santa Barbara city college said yes, we want you to, and so I will always show, and if you know me, you know that I do that.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I want to make people understand that, where we work we have our problems, absolutely, but if we could show kindness and say hey, how can I make your job easier.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: That opens up so many more doors, and that brings more collegiality, instead of saying you don't do this, you don't believe what I believe this that we're so diverse it.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But it truly is, it is our differences that bring us together me and Ellen are completely different and coaching philosophies.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: That we are callings and we respect one another and I just wish that at city College as a fall and that saying that I have it right 100% I just know that what I can bring.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I want to bring joy to other people, I want to people have tough jobs on our campus they absolutely do, and sometimes they may not make the decision that I like.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But if I know them, then I can understand that if they made the decision that I don't like, and I fear them, then we have problems.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So I try not to do that in our own little department, so I always say if you need help i'm going to show up and if I can't help you.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: My assistants, I always bolin told ball Intel you got to do this got to do that, you know and they're like oh my gosh how do I do this I go because it's fine, we can do this i'm there you're there.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know it's not about getting paid for helping someone at a football game it's, this is what we do, because Santa Barbara city college is a wonderful place to work, it really is.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: We just have to remember, it is our differences that bind us not separate us, but we got to check ourselves like I always say you gotta check yourself got to be willing to say I don't understand that teach me.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: helped me listen help me learn I don't have to be the smartest person in the room.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: There you have it.
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Hong Lieu: yeah and and yeah I feel like the the differences and and the different rationales and try to help folks make decisions, you know getting to know folks and how they make the decisions.
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Hong Lieu: Then he at least trust you can trust someone's rationale, even though it's not the same as yours that goes a long way.
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Hong Lieu: And there's very few people on this campus i'll be i'll be frank, that that I don't trust my rationale very few you know, like there's not many at all so so so your points your points are well taken I had a quick question for you, you play basketball too right.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Yes, I did.
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Hong Lieu: So, in terms of as a player versus a coach you know they always say it can be tough for certain players to make the transition coaching.
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Hong Lieu: How was it was there anything that made it easier for you as they helped you or is it just those mentor people to kind of guide your coaching philosophy versus your playing philosophy because.
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Hong Lieu: You know they you know, they say, like you know, a guy like Michael Jordan, would be a good coach because everything runs through him it's hard to get get a holistic view of the game because.
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Hong Lieu: he's so used to everything just running through me central Center whatever I don't know if that's true or not, because i've never done.
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Hong Lieu: Anything on a professional level in terms of sports, but in terms of your your playing philosophy restrict coaching philosophy, how did that change over time and was just mentors where did that come from yourself just kind of refining what you were doing.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But I think the most important thing is, you know when you're a player and you want to go into coaching.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Your playing days are over you don't matter you're irrelevant, but what you did on the Court so now, you have to surround yourself with coaches.
339
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: who have been there before you, you have to have conversations you have to talk about their philosophy.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You have to talk to you know their foundational philosophy, not their offense or Defense philosophy, but their foundational offense i'm sorry foundational philosophy of what they truly believe in.
341
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Your days as a player they're great for the memory books and the storytelling, the only thing you take from that is the love of the game.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's, the only thing you take their my players, unless they ask questions I don't share my playing experience they don't need to know that, because it's irrelevant if they ask questions, then i'll offer until it because it was a different error.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Different environment.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: completely different society back from 1988 to 92 completely different, so they won't understand what I went through.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: To what they're going through, because it was different, but if they want to ask me if I was good, and if they want to ask all this, then I bring up everything and then I show them the stats and articles and.
346
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Why, we were successful, but I don't share it they don't need to know, unless they want you.
347
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: They just need to know that I love the game and i'm going to coach the game, the right way.
348
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Hong Lieu: And they get that from so many other other pieces of your of your personality you just your coaching style that i'm sure they did ever even comes up.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: No, it doesn't and that's Okay, too, you know I think the most important thing is because my foundational philosophy is based in humanism so humanism is everyone has a pass.
350
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Whether you made bad decisions or bad choices that does not define who you are so let's look at that, on how we can now create a present and future.
351
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So let's do that everyone deserves a second chance and and I I kid you not to talk to any of the players that.
352
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: have played for me before up until the last three years, they come in they'll watch our games they'll come to practice and watch their like culture so soft Thank you let me do you why are you not getting on, and I said, your playing days are over here this.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: doesn't have what you had not yet so it's not that i'm Sorry, I do have to adapt I don't change my core philosophies, but I do have to adapt to who's in front of me and that's where success happens.
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yeah.
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Hong Lieu: very variable.
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Akil Hill: You know I.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Oh sorry go ahead.
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Akil Hill: No, I was gonna say you know I work with coach sandrine because I mean I do one of the things I do is athletic eligibility and I can testify to the fact that, when she says.
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Akil Hill: You know how she tries to make people's jobs better she is definitely made my job better and and and i'll say this point, I think.
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Akil Hill: That.
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Akil Hill: cannot be stated enough you think people by making their job easier, so, in other words, I.
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Akil Hill: You know, when you go how many times have we seen this play out in their jobs were sewing goes oh you do something for them you're like.
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Akil Hill: Thank you so much, thank you, I really appreciate, I really appreciate you the next semester rolls by they do the same mistakes you fix it for them again Oh, thank you you're the best.
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Akil Hill: next semester rolls by they do the same thing right, and so my thought processes and i've seen this with us and drink and I just want to thank you so much for.
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Akil Hill: I see you Thank you me in my job, and what I do, by the way that you put you prep and prepare for me in terms of how we work together.
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Akil Hill: And and that's that's just one of the you know a little caviar in terms of how I think we can make a better culture or create a better culture at Santa Barbara city college is.
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Akil Hill: it's like it's not when you continue continue to make the same mistakes repetitively fix your mistake, then you honor the person for the job that they're in.
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Akil Hill: Because I know that's how you honor means, because when you submit stuff to me it's always on time it's always organized I don't have to really like, how do you for anything like that's how you think people in their job.
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Akil Hill: You don't keep making the same mistake expecting them to fix it and say I appreciate, you know you don't appreciate me you keep doing the same thing over and over again.
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Akil Hill: you're making my life harder that's what you're doing so, I just want to take a quick moment and say thank you for your organization and always be on top of it and.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: i'll kill you don't.
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Akil Hill: see it yeah I get.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: My behavior and action.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I guess Thank you yeah I want everybody to know to has a big job, I could not do what she does for compliance for athletic eligibility, it is.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So stressful and time consuming not the paperwork dealing with coaches, the paperwork is he's wonderfully crafted at his craft he's great.
377
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But dealing with coaches and understanding, make a kills job easier because it's not just you that he's working with he also has another job.
378
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Like you do teaching coaching he also has his other job so i'm telling you feel I your ears might be ringing all the time during it any athletic.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Eligibility and i'm talking to those coaches i'm like send him this get the red card he created this wonderful red card.
380
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: To help us coaches, he did not have to do that, so we can stay organized that red card was like a million dollars for me.
381
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Because now I just make a copy I check it with the players is this in is that and so when it's time for him, he doesn't have to go searching it just it's there.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know, we want it to be there and because I don't want him having to call different places and different emails his time is valuable so that's how we work together, but i'm so happy.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You got it right.
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Akil Hill: yeah I see I see.
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Akil Hill: Yes, yeah.
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Hong Lieu: that's much better, much better than any sort of box of chocolates, or vice Thank you card you get is just that sort of.
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Hong Lieu: That yeah.
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Hong Lieu: that's right haas good gesture, you can.
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Akil Hill: Get right uh huh.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Right you got it.
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Akil Hill: You.
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Akil Hill: don't tell me you appreciate me what you're dropping more work to do that.
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Akil Hill: just say you messed up my bad you know.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah Monday.
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Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So.
396
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Hong Lieu: So normally from here, we would say queen good eatin so because the conversation so good, I feel like we should just jump into our culture piece first and see where where things stand.
397
00:57:07.110 --> 00:57:17.190
Hong Lieu: So sandrine if you want to kick it off for us and you want to any sort of book movie TV show anything that has kind of moved you it sounds like there's a lot there's already a couple pieces in the earlier conversation.
398
00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:17.700
Hong Lieu: yeah.
399
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:19.230
Hong Lieu: Right after the show notes.
400
00:57:19.290 --> 00:57:19.620
Akil Hill: Those, like.
401
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:20.100
yeah.
402
00:57:21.720 --> 00:57:24.690
Akil Hill: I was like hunger you put those I knew you right absolutely yeah.
403
00:57:24.720 --> 00:57:26.220
Akil Hill: I know you're on the I saw your face.
404
00:57:26.430 --> 00:57:28.440
Hong Lieu: Every time there's a book or something that I haven't heard about that.
405
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:28.860
Akil Hill: Is yeah.
406
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:31.290
Hong Lieu: On these kind of topics like a little flag goes up like okay.
407
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:32.580
Hong Lieu: yeah I will look for that.
408
00:57:32.850 --> 00:57:33.570
Akil Hill: yeah look.
409
00:57:33.990 --> 00:57:38.640
Hong Lieu: So if there's anything else that you want to mention that the kind of you know, for our listeners or for anyone to just.
410
00:57:39.030 --> 00:57:45.720
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Yes, actually, can I go get the two books, because this has past year I have to show, can I go get it.
411
00:57:45.930 --> 00:57:46.350
Hong Lieu: Oh, of course.
412
00:57:46.470 --> 00:57:47.040
Akil Hill: Of course.
413
00:57:47.430 --> 00:57:49.590
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Yes, changed why.
414
00:57:57.180 --> 00:57:59.070
Hong Lieu: yeah we can edit this down no problem so it's all good.
415
00:57:59.370 --> 00:57:59.970
Akil Hill: Okay, go.
416
00:58:00.210 --> 00:58:03.900
Akil Hill: yeah it's been such a really enjoying it.
417
00:58:04.050 --> 00:58:04.770
Oh yeah.
418
00:58:16.260 --> 00:58:17.640
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Alright, so.
419
00:58:19.020 --> 00:58:30.480
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: um i've always used when we talk about basketball and getting in the flow state, you know us carry or like the pursuit of excellence, you know for the mind part and everything but.
420
00:58:31.170 --> 00:58:40.770
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Because of what's happening in the world in the past two years, well what has been happening that's one thing that social media is wonderful it is bringing social injustice to the forefront.
421
00:58:41.460 --> 00:58:59.910
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And so I have to educate myself, because in in my little culture as a basketball coach I want to create a safe space for again my women of color my latinx players my LGBT Q plus players my non binary players.
422
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:10.050
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: How do I do that, so I have to educate myself, so I a friend of mine he's actually the department chair at bakersfield College has a red T bone.
423
00:59:10.740 --> 00:59:20.640
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And we've had his amount of color and we have been friends for 20 years he said to me sandrine this was two years ago with everything going on.
424
00:59:21.180 --> 00:59:37.050
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I really need you to do the work to understand the social injustice for black and brown people, then I said i'm ready and he's like Okay, so he recommended this book this everybody who's coaching score.
425
00:59:37.560 --> 00:59:49.950
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And you have diverse a device student population and needs to read this book The black friend this book is written by federal Joseph and it's on being a better white person.
426
00:59:50.850 --> 00:59:58.260
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Now, when you read it it's you doing the work it's not the job of my friend virgie boland who's amount of color to educate me.
427
00:59:58.950 --> 01:00:13.530
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I had to educate myself, so this because I teach and coach women of color this has helped me understand, even more so, their cultural wealth and where they've come from and some things that.
428
01:00:14.940 --> 01:00:25.710
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: That we used to say when I was growing up, that the certain terms like um you know, like it's all good in the hood.
429
01:00:27.240 --> 01:00:41.970
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And back then that was acceptable, but now, if I said that to one of my players that could be very offensive so but I had to educate myself, so this book it's a conversation about.
430
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:55.590
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Men men and women of color and how to coach them into watch what you say, because you can be triggering without with with with no intention yeah can be a trigger.
431
01:00:56.490 --> 01:01:10.920
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: This changed my life, not only as a push a better human being Okay, then this book mind Jim so remember in the earlier part of the podcast I was talking about.
432
01:01:11.520 --> 01:01:21.660
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: they're not coming with this learn skill of mental toughness so this book in last semester my team my coven team we caught the covert team, because we didn't compete.
433
01:01:22.170 --> 01:01:40.110
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: They had to get this book assignments were out of this book and it helps connect their mind their mental physical spirit together so they're not burnt out so if they have emotional.
434
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:52.530
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: insecurities they know how to talk about it, and those are the two books these, these are the two books that I have tailored to these 13 freshmen and it has not been easy.
435
01:01:53.160 --> 01:02:05.910
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: i've had some very interesting things happen with this year's team, so far, where they just don't know any better, but they're getting there, but if I didn't have these two books.
436
01:02:07.080 --> 01:02:27.510
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I I would be miserable because I wouldn't know how to connect them with themselves mentally physically their environment, their full here and so these books and telling you everybody should get them, it helps across the board, not just the sport aspect of it.
437
01:02:28.650 --> 01:02:29.550
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: here's my little nugget.
438
01:02:29.790 --> 01:02:36.510
Hong Lieu: it's interesting that we seem to move away from the holistic perspective, because I know that was something that was really kind of important folks was.
439
01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:41.430
Hong Lieu: was thinking about things holistically the buy everything you know mind body soul is you know everything was all.
440
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:46.500
Hong Lieu: That you thought of everything as one unit holistically but now we seem to have gone back into these individual things where.
441
01:02:46.740 --> 01:02:52.320
Hong Lieu: My physical body my mind like that that people feel more of a disconnect and maybe it's like a technology thing, maybe it's an.
442
01:02:52.560 --> 01:02:57.300
Hong Lieu: Efficiency thing where you're much more efficient when you're just kind of working your body to the you know.
443
01:02:57.720 --> 01:03:02.250
Hong Lieu: All the way grinding it down to the to the bone and then just not focusing on the aspects, maybe that's it but.
444
01:03:02.460 --> 01:03:10.230
Hong Lieu: I feel like we've kind of gotten away from that a little bit where, when I was growing up, it was a lot more think about things holistically think about the planet as a whole, think about it and yeah.
445
01:03:10.500 --> 01:03:17.580
Hong Lieu: So so it's a good reminder there and then you know the other aspect of it with with the black friend book and talking about triggering incidents like that.
446
01:03:17.910 --> 01:03:25.410
Hong Lieu: The onus i'm glad that honestly should be there were people used to say, oh it's because you're a week oh it's because you're you need to lighten up it's something you need to do.
447
01:03:25.710 --> 01:03:34.920
Hong Lieu: we're now we're we're finally starting to look back and say like hey baby years being a jerk for no reason, or maybe you're just like maybe there's unnecessarily trying to prod things that don't you know, like.
448
01:03:35.190 --> 01:03:38.610
Hong Lieu: So let's just say i'm glad that they're both those conversations are happening those.
449
01:03:38.700 --> 01:03:40.470
Hong Lieu: Those selling some great books i'll double check.
450
01:03:40.950 --> 01:03:41.550
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah then okay.
451
01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:50.910
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: First and foremost, I am an educator I just happen to teach and coach right, so I educate through the physical.
452
01:03:51.450 --> 01:03:59.520
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And, but I want to say I educate you the physical through the mental and through the spirit, because that really is, what can you see ology is your.
453
01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:11.460
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: you're gonna teach coach the black athlete the brown athlete the gay athlete the non binary athlete and if you don't educate yourself, you could be a barrier to them.
454
01:04:12.120 --> 01:04:19.320
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So let's not do that because they're coming to us it, which is a great thing sports is a safe i'll talk basketball.
455
01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:36.750
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: At city college is a safe space for them we're going to make sure they're safe mentally physically intellectually and, but it is getting harder and harder for the players to understand that it's getting so much harder in that part I don't know.
456
01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:50.610
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I don't know why why that's hard I don't know I haven't I don't have an answer, for that is why is it getting harder, I know, society is getting harder for them.
457
01:04:51.330 --> 01:05:05.970
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But if they were an athlete in high school, why are they not being taught his fundamental skills to build that mental toughness through a sport, because you can it doesn't take away from the x's and o's it actually makes the x's and o's better.
458
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:17.640
Hong Lieu: It is an interesting question and it's something that with as as a generation cycle, as I get farther and farther away from that each.
459
01:05:18.120 --> 01:05:27.900
Hong Lieu: Age myself it's harder for me to relay in a lot of ways in terms of I think I know what's going on, but I have no idea what's going on, because the circumstances and the difficulties that folks are going through.
460
01:05:28.350 --> 01:05:34.410
Hong Lieu: it's just yeah it's just totally different like we we literally had no social media when when I was that age so it's.
461
01:05:34.830 --> 01:05:43.410
Hong Lieu: It is totally different so it's hard to relate but that's where that's where the idea of being empathetic and understanding and trying and making that effort to relate because.
462
01:05:43.710 --> 01:05:53.130
Hong Lieu: A lot of folks don't make that effort they just want to be this tough taskmaster like my you know my way works let's just do it this way it'll it probably will end up working eventually.
463
01:05:53.430 --> 01:06:00.930
Hong Lieu: But you going that extra mile and trying to meet folks halfway and trying to Britt create that bridge of understanding, you know, like in terms of.
464
01:06:01.230 --> 01:06:08.430
Hong Lieu: i'm not forcing this on you i'm just trying to kind of get to a point where we can come together and connect and find true connection you're not just asking for.
465
01:06:08.730 --> 01:06:14.910
Hong Lieu: A connection on athletic level of connection, on which we have an agreement to play a sport you're asking for a true human connection where.
466
01:06:15.660 --> 01:06:25.170
Hong Lieu: you're building trust that that guides you not only for the season, but for beyond that what you're asking you're talking about grants and scholarships and transferring and just building human connections, I mean that's.
467
01:06:25.560 --> 01:06:28.560
Hong Lieu: that's really the beautiful picture, no matter what you understand I don't understand.
468
01:06:28.860 --> 01:06:34.050
Hong Lieu: That effort you make is always going to be rewarded and it's something that I wish more folks would try.
469
01:06:34.290 --> 01:06:45.030
Hong Lieu: I mean that's the other question why don't more people try to do that, but it, you know that's Those are all unanswerable questions because it requires so much more kind of yeah society kind of yeah.
470
01:06:45.120 --> 01:07:01.860
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: No absolutely absolutely I think that the players don't trust it takes so much to get them to trust us and that's Okay, that I get that but human connection as.
471
01:07:02.970 --> 01:07:09.750
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: A basketball coach is i'm never going to put you in harm's way and never going to do anything that.
472
01:07:10.530 --> 01:07:28.110
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Ever that causes you distress, I want to have you stress good stress, you know challenging challenging you being in the game, you know with the score tie like those are the those aren't such fun moments i'm trying to teach them like don't be fearful of that.
473
01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:28.950
Akil Hill: yeah.
474
01:07:29.700 --> 01:07:31.320
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: it's getting them harder and harder.
475
01:07:33.720 --> 01:07:49.380
Akil Hill: You know i'm thinking, like, I think that you know, I was thinking like well why is it, and I think there's a piece that one is, I think you what you have a tough job and doing it as a coach is almost in a lot of ways re teaching them.
476
01:07:50.580 --> 01:08:01.320
Akil Hill: How to play the game of basketball because Look, we know in a lot of places it's about like we already established with the with the club ball, you know they're not coaches and a lot of cases there you know.
477
01:08:02.280 --> 01:08:07.530
Akil Hill: That it's a lot, a lot of the times it's someone's father's on who loves who's passionate about basketball.
478
01:08:08.610 --> 01:08:20.340
Akil Hill: decided to start a club or travel team they're all friends with each other right, and then they get into high school and if the coaches aren't equipped that way and, like those high stressful situations are in games.
479
01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:32.130
Akil Hill: And the coach reacts a certain way, so they come to you, almost you know after high school in the state of shellshock where you know it's either like you know.
480
01:08:32.580 --> 01:08:41.880
Akil Hill: i'm a failure because I missed the layup like all the things that you were alluding to it in the podcast it's almost like i'm hearing like you're actually reprogramming.
481
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:49.020
Akil Hill: These students, how to look at basketball, in my opinion, the right way don't.
482
01:08:49.230 --> 01:08:49.860
Akil Hill: You know so.
483
01:08:50.040 --> 01:08:52.950
Hong Lieu: All they know is adults, giving them the opposite reaction to.
484
01:08:53.430 --> 01:08:54.510
Akil Hill: ws or else.
485
01:08:55.410 --> 01:09:10.710
Akil Hill: If you make the shot at the end you're the best if you miss it, you said and here's the thing sometimes you can miss a shot and you did everything right sometimes you can make a shot and you did everything wrong but they don't coach you on that they just said hey this shot went in.
486
01:09:11.850 --> 01:09:12.300
Akil Hill: So.
487
01:09:12.540 --> 01:09:14.280
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: For you in our film session last week.
488
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:19.440
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: We were talking just about this so.
489
01:09:20.460 --> 01:09:31.200
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Statistically we're not shooting the ball well at all, so we, we have a great program called synergy where it it captures every single players shot and where they're shooting from.
490
01:09:31.830 --> 01:09:40.710
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And they they cut the clips so like I have a player and I was like you could not be more open, look at this, how did you miss that shot.
491
01:09:41.130 --> 01:09:48.000
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And she's like coach I don't know look it unbalanced everything you tell me a balance i'm in my range, it was a good shot.
492
01:09:48.390 --> 01:10:05.670
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But the way we like I didn't want her to feel bad I mean, but like Okay, you should have made that right, like in my mind, but by time or like then she's like coach I got the next one that's the best it say like you know how could you miss that you are wide open like.
493
01:10:06.930 --> 01:10:12.690
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I, and I tell them i'm like i'm going to use you I try to use their sociological terms and like bro how could.
494
01:10:15.270 --> 01:10:20.580
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: How could you miss that you are wide open so that this again allows them to feel.
495
01:10:21.240 --> 01:10:28.170
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Because they're going to beat themselves up like mentally and be upset with themselves more so than I could ever tell them to like make a shot.
496
01:10:28.470 --> 01:10:36.930
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But that's an example of where i'm trying to let them know like that's failing up so you missed the shot but look you sprinted back on Defense let's look at that place.
497
01:10:37.650 --> 01:10:51.870
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So, which we always say next one next one, so i'm just but it's hard they don't they don't come with that mindset and even some just don't understand me either they don't for like the first month.
498
01:10:53.100 --> 01:11:05.220
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And then they start understanding me but it's a lot of stress that they give me by not understanding me, you know because I am speaking another language to them at times you know so it's a lot of work, but like I said I revere it.
499
01:11:06.660 --> 01:11:18.540
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: A revered because it is a privilege to coach where I am at city college my coaching at city College has given my own kids are wonderful opportunities who've gone through city college and they they're striving.
500
01:11:19.080 --> 01:11:33.570
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know my son's an entrepreneur he went to city college he had his own business at 14 he met his the entrepreneur instructor helped him get the job at stock X NSPCC my daughter's aspiring kinesiology just went through.
501
01:11:34.890 --> 01:11:42.660
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: sbc thriving in northridge because sbc is that good the instructors are that good let's not forget that.
502
01:11:43.710 --> 01:11:53.610
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: we're not here without students or athletes, so we need to check ourselves and understand that, yes, we have our problems, but we have.
503
01:11:54.180 --> 01:12:07.590
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: As a whole, on a campus that we're not here without the students or the athletes we're here for them so let's make it the best for them not push through your agenda because it'll make you feel better yeah yeah.
504
01:12:08.070 --> 01:12:13.080
Hong Lieu: And it really is sports is a microcosm of life that there are no 100% place you could be totally open.
505
01:12:13.350 --> 01:12:14.550
Hong Lieu: Your phone can be perfect.
506
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:22.860
Hong Lieu: You released could be right on point and it could still not go in, I mean it's like it's like that, with life and it's one of those things where you just say how good at the next time around.
507
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:28.980
Hong Lieu: it's about results versus process, the results may not match the process, but if the process is good, he did the right way.
508
01:12:29.370 --> 01:12:37.380
Hong Lieu: You should you shouldn't feel too bad about it, I mean of course you do what you can to beat yourself up as an individual, you know, whatever your coping mechanism is, if you want to feel bad about it for bad about it.
509
01:12:37.650 --> 01:12:44.700
Hong Lieu: But yeah at the same time, your results, the results in mass process, but your process was good, you have you have to you have to be okay with that you know.
510
01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:46.140
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Are you in my practice yes.
511
01:12:46.650 --> 01:12:51.270
Hong Lieu: But it's but it's one of the things we're even at work, we don't we sometimes don't think that way you know, in terms of.
512
01:12:51.510 --> 01:13:04.110
Hong Lieu: You talk about not not agreeing with some of the general, not just that I mean if their process was good and results in match what you thought it should be, then, then the problems are not as big as maybe we think you know so it's one of the things that a good reminder of sorts of.
513
01:13:05.130 --> 01:13:08.130
Hong Lieu: Applying that to everything you know, in terms of holistic mindset.
514
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:11.130
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I stay where's yeah yeah.
515
01:13:12.030 --> 01:13:12.750
Hong Lieu: yeah no absolutely.
516
01:13:13.980 --> 01:13:23.040
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Developed i'm a developmental model coach that's what my program is known for and winning at all costs that's not what i'm about that's not that's not even.
517
01:13:23.610 --> 01:13:31.950
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The mission of Santa Barbara city college our mission is to matriculate students and give them the resources needed that's our mission.
518
01:13:32.250 --> 01:13:41.670
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah you know, speaking of process oriented they're always focused on the outcome, so you know, I was telling you we were struggling with that UCLA drew.
519
01:13:42.300 --> 01:13:54.150
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And that last thing when I just said, you know it's the process I don't it took us 55 minutes to get there, but, but today, when we do it we'll do it one time we'll get it.
520
01:13:56.010 --> 01:14:04.230
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know, we have to suffer a little bit wit and it's not even suffering suffering like you get to run jump sweat nobody ever regretted sweating they always feel better after.
521
01:14:05.430 --> 01:14:08.940
Hong Lieu: That 55 minute investment is going to pay dividends throughout the season so so.
522
01:14:09.210 --> 01:14:18.810
Hong Lieu: You took the time you didn't you didn't just let's just shut down practice or send everyone home any of that nonsense you worked with them yeah I mean everyone was everyone was down for the cause and he did it and.
523
01:14:19.350 --> 01:14:23.670
Hong Lieu: that's that's great I mean those are those are the kind of stories that we need to hear more about you know.
524
01:14:23.700 --> 01:14:34.530
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Around happy after they were like and then they were so happy and that that made me happy like, even though it took fit but you're right it's not.
525
01:14:36.120 --> 01:14:46.350
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Some coaches, yes, they would shut down say get out of here you're not ready, like your mind's not in it today, well, we don't really know that you know this teach them.
526
01:14:46.860 --> 01:14:48.030
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Even if you're frustrated.
527
01:14:48.300 --> 01:14:52.440
Hong Lieu: yeah and and you taking time to learn about folks individual culture wealthy.
528
01:14:52.710 --> 01:14:58.890
Hong Lieu: You don't know where their mind is a as a coach you know every single person what they're going through what the what their struggle was coming up or.
529
01:14:59.130 --> 01:15:10.380
Hong Lieu: What brought them brought brought them to that point in time, I mean to say that you can know that shut it down like that that's very presumptuous as a person, so that that's that's a very kind of like yeah that's an arrogant statement, a lot of ways.
530
01:15:10.410 --> 01:15:12.510
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know so so arrogant.
531
01:15:12.810 --> 01:15:13.860
Hong Lieu: yeah so so.
532
01:15:15.150 --> 01:15:29.460
Hong Lieu: I don't think we could have a better I kind of advertisement for recipe CC basketball I haven't get this podcast a because you just demonstrated so many kind of like high trade character aspects, I mean, let alone the quantifiable parts about the 97% you know scholarship rate that.
533
01:15:29.760 --> 01:15:35.100
Hong Lieu: Is but but beyond that all the little things that we learned either not quantifiable you talking about mental toughness I mean.
534
01:15:35.820 --> 01:15:41.160
Hong Lieu: that's such a nebulous concept for a lot of people but it's something that it's literally tattooed on to your body, I mean.
535
01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:46.440
Hong Lieu: You don't you don't do that you believe in something like that that you could teach that stuff like yeah I mean this is.
536
01:15:46.830 --> 01:15:56.880
Hong Lieu: Just incredible and we just been an honor honor today, I feel like I mean usually we kind of rotate around we all share hope but just kind of being able to work with what you've provided I don't want to really share anything i'm.
537
01:15:58.380 --> 01:16:03.930
Hong Lieu: just going to talk to you about what you shared, it has been plenty for me in terms of yeah yeah I mean yeah.
538
01:16:03.990 --> 01:16:05.610
Akil Hill: I am going to throw one share out though.
539
01:16:06.780 --> 01:16:07.800
Hong Lieu: Go ahead go ahead and kill.
540
01:16:08.100 --> 01:16:10.140
Akil Hill: You because it's it's related to what we're.
541
01:16:10.440 --> 01:16:17.370
Akil Hill: Discussing, so I think I would I would be I would regret it after, but if you guys haven't checked out.
542
01:16:18.660 --> 01:16:22.110
Akil Hill: The Colin kaepernick special on netflix the short series.
543
01:16:25.350 --> 01:16:26.220
Akil Hill: yeah.
544
01:16:26.580 --> 01:16:35.280
Akil Hill: I think that would be my choice for the for the show and and and I really enjoyed that for a lot of different reasons.
545
01:16:37.380 --> 01:16:43.140
Akil Hill: You know, he kind of talked about you know your book selection, what was the black friend and.
546
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:50.850
Akil Hill: You know, it was really interesting I was kind of reflected on on the show, and you know here it is you know i'm sure, a lot of us are familiar.
547
01:16:51.360 --> 01:16:58.740
Akil Hill: With his story, but the fact that you know, he was adopted, and he and he you know, like both of his parents had.
548
01:16:59.460 --> 01:17:09.780
Akil Hill: The best intentions and they met well and they loved him and they care for him, but it shows the dynamic of you can be have the greatest of intentions.
549
01:17:10.230 --> 01:17:19.860
Akil Hill: And still be harmful if you're not really trying to understand your son or your friends perspective on things.
550
01:17:20.550 --> 01:17:32.340
Akil Hill: And the show does an amazing job at that right all the little nuances about you know, and I want to spoil it too much, but the whole the trips to the hotel driving in the car his friend.
551
01:17:32.820 --> 01:17:43.500
Akil Hill: group his Community how he saw certain things, and so I would definitely recommend that and I think kind of kind of ties into what we've been discussing for the past hour so.
552
01:17:44.580 --> 01:17:55.500
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The Colin kaepernick serious it is wonderful and i'm not going to give too much away, but I was very sad that episode like where I need more episodes.
553
01:17:55.890 --> 01:17:56.580
Akil Hill: yeah right.
554
01:17:56.730 --> 01:17:57.030
Akil Hill: need.
555
01:17:57.600 --> 01:17:58.770
Akil Hill: Like yeah yeah.
556
01:17:59.340 --> 01:18:09.990
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Can I share something you want to know something sad about that I brought that there's two documentaries, the Mary J blige documentary I brought that to my team I think everybody should watch that it's on Amazon.
557
01:18:09.990 --> 01:18:10.230
Hong Lieu: Prime.
558
01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:11.160
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I saw that that was.
559
01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:19.830
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Incredible so incredible and Colin kaepernick so I I brought the Colin kaepernick to the team and they're like who.
560
01:18:22.320 --> 01:18:22.800
Akil Hill: Oh, really.
561
01:18:23.190 --> 01:18:31.830
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah and I said and then like Is it because he's a football player and then like oh yeah yeah the guy he has a big big big here.
562
01:18:32.070 --> 01:18:32.760
Akil Hill: yeah yeah.
563
01:18:32.910 --> 01:18:34.560
Hong Lieu: Yes, but not the viewing they didn't know that.
564
01:18:35.190 --> 01:18:36.930
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: No, no, no.
565
01:18:37.590 --> 01:18:38.640
Akil Hill: It was social media.
566
01:18:39.060 --> 01:18:40.410
Akil Hill: The social media people.
567
01:18:40.650 --> 01:18:41.670
Hong Lieu: It turns quick it's.
568
01:18:42.390 --> 01:18:46.080
Hong Lieu: Like man talk about what things are retro like 510 years ago 15 years ago.
569
01:18:46.110 --> 01:18:46.860
Hong Lieu: 20 years ago.
570
01:18:47.130 --> 01:18:49.050
Now it's like every two years.
571
01:18:50.730 --> 01:18:54.990
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Then, and then I said and I said this in and go with social media like, how do you not know and they're like.
572
01:18:56.100 --> 01:18:59.880
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: they're like we will wait no I do know what I do know so, but it does like thinking about it.
573
01:19:00.420 --> 01:19:07.200
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So that was very telling to me that they have short term memory, but I don't want them to have short term memory, especially when we.
574
01:19:07.590 --> 01:19:16.740
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Talk about like this documentary or even Mary J blige documentary you know get invested in something other than tick tock and.
575
01:19:17.310 --> 01:19:31.290
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: dances meaning on tick tock you know get invested in something other than yourself, we have a saying GT why greater than yourself yeah We have lots of things so GT Why is greater than yourself.
576
01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:48.330
Akil Hill: My story might peace with it is write your own story what's your story going to be like we're always like out here, looking at what other people are doing what like what about you, what about what are you doing how's your story going to play out.
577
01:19:48.690 --> 01:19:49.560
Akil Hill: i'm going to say all right.
578
01:19:51.720 --> 01:19:52.020
Akil Hill: sure.
579
01:19:54.270 --> 01:20:02.070
Akil Hill: i'll credit, I say you know we always watching the everyone's watch what else, what else what everyone else is doing what are you, what are we doing what you know what I mean like.
580
01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:09.810
Akil Hill: it's such a weird unique thing you like Hong was saying we didn't grow up and, with it, so i'm not trying to like.
581
01:20:10.890 --> 01:20:21.480
Akil Hill: Be out here, condemning them because it's just different right and I and and a lot of ways i'm like I try to be have empathy for them, because i'm like it's just a different time of growing up are worse.
582
01:20:22.620 --> 01:20:31.830
Akil Hill: Things that we had to worry about is like being home before the street lights really came on and and so, but again we're out here, watching so much of.
583
01:20:32.400 --> 01:20:39.150
Akil Hill: You know other people's lives and whatever they're doing like what's, what are we, I mean what how are you going to write your story for watching everyone else's story.
584
01:20:39.420 --> 01:20:47.610
Hong Lieu: And can you answer that question without a deep kind of rooted culture sense, you know, like without those pieces of culture without having some connection to things that came before.
585
01:20:47.940 --> 01:20:54.630
Hong Lieu: and taking that and building on things that came before because, yes, you can do a lot as a blank slate you know figuring out something for yourself or without.
586
01:20:54.930 --> 01:20:58.770
Hong Lieu: pieces of culture to grab onto and keep close to your heart and to kind of build off of.
587
01:20:59.280 --> 01:21:06.660
Hong Lieu: Then, are you how much you know, because the idea is to take what was there before and improve on it, if you can do a lot by yourself with with no knowledge of the past.
588
01:21:06.930 --> 01:21:13.560
Hong Lieu: But you can do a lot more, if you kind of know what ideas are there, what has been presented and iterate and build off of that so so.
589
01:21:13.770 --> 01:21:21.480
Hong Lieu: Without that rich kind of voltage culture, which is why we make an emphasis to me to highlight will folks have read seed in their lives, that has changed and that has moved them.
590
01:21:21.900 --> 01:21:29.670
Hong Lieu: Because you hope that someone will pick something like that up and it will change other folks as well, maybe not on the same level, maybe not the same way, but that's exactly the point because.
591
01:21:30.390 --> 01:21:41.370
Hong Lieu: Seven 7 billion viewpoints on this planet and and we're trying to emphasize that you know you want to say all people are equal, then let's let's really put these perspectives on equal equal plane.
592
01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:43.260
Hong Lieu: And that's what the Colin kaepernick.
593
01:21:43.380 --> 01:21:52.560
Hong Lieu: You know, show and story
594
01:21:53.070 --> 01:22:00.450
Hong Lieu: you're raising you know you're raising the future you're raising them to be better than you, you know, like it like what where's that mindset and and yeah so.
595
01:22:02.190 --> 01:22:10.950
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah well, I want to add one more thing to that, so we have a multicultural family and without getting too much into my background, but.
596
01:22:12.120 --> 01:22:22.530
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: I was immersed into the black culture, when I was very young and as i've been growing up, and also the Hispanic culture as i'm growing up and then also Middle Eastern.
597
01:22:23.580 --> 01:22:32.250
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: But i've learned so much it's wonderful to learn about different cultures, different ideas, and I have, I actually was on.
598
01:22:33.270 --> 01:22:40.650
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: James Joyce you know, James Joyce right, I was invited to be on his panel, a few weeks back coffee with the black guy.
599
01:22:41.310 --> 01:22:49.620
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And so there was a question that was posed to me and I said i'm not trying to be the white savior that is not my role.
600
01:22:50.100 --> 01:23:03.810
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: i'm trying to learn build bridges give opportunities that they didn't have prior to need mentoring them and giving them direction, but it could be easily like in when I was watching the.
601
01:23:05.190 --> 01:23:09.090
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: The Colin kaepernick black like and wait think it's called that right.
602
01:23:09.270 --> 01:23:17.790
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah and the parents, I was like wow like I would never do that, but you don't know what you don't know.
603
01:23:19.140 --> 01:23:30.510
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And I was you start feeling for calling as a young kid and there was no representation, and so I was yelling my daughter was with me she's like, why are you yelling at the TV i'm like.
604
01:23:30.750 --> 01:23:34.470
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: He needs representation years have.
605
01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:37.200
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know and she's like mom this is in the 90s.
606
01:23:38.460 --> 01:23:43.020
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: So they don't know what they don't know or didn't know my psychology different.
607
01:23:44.730 --> 01:23:51.750
Hong Lieu: That and that was the one piece of growing up in La with in a 60 70% Chinese population, and you know that I did when I meet a lot of.
608
01:23:52.020 --> 01:23:57.360
Hong Lieu: Asian Americans day they tell me, there was no representation in my Community there was no one that was, like me, I felt like an alien.
609
01:23:57.750 --> 01:24:10.110
Hong Lieu: And that's the one piece, where you know, with all the difficulties I had growing up, that was not one of them and i'm very you know i'm i'm i'm thankful for that I was, I was blessed I got lucky because there was nothing I did to cause that are to influence that at all.
610
01:24:10.140 --> 01:24:10.470
Akil Hill: yeah.
611
01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:11.550
Hong Lieu: It was just luck, of the draw.
612
01:24:11.670 --> 01:24:13.080
Hong Lieu: You know, it was just I got lucky.
613
01:24:13.290 --> 01:24:14.040
Akil Hill: You know so.
614
01:24:14.070 --> 01:24:27.960
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's why you're successful now Hong right now that's why that's why I kill is that's why you guys try even in all the challenges and everything you're still thriving not just surviving you're thriving and what you're trying to do it's amazing.
615
01:24:29.220 --> 01:24:34.200
Hong Lieu: yeah it's also hard to us to feel successful anytime because my parents did teach me, you know raise me the way they did.
616
01:24:35.490 --> 01:24:37.260
Akil Hill: Every age and every style.
617
01:24:37.320 --> 01:24:38.580
Akil Hill: yeah you're not.
618
01:24:38.580 --> 01:24:39.240
Akil Hill: gonna get hot.
619
01:24:39.480 --> 01:24:40.260
Hong Lieu: What is success.
620
01:24:40.290 --> 01:24:44.700
Hong Lieu: What is success to date, apparently they're like you know if I was a doctor would be that you'd like.
621
01:24:44.820 --> 01:24:45.870
Hong Lieu: Did you kill code yet.
622
01:24:50.580 --> 01:24:57.540
Hong Lieu: Well, yes, thank thank you both for your excellent PICs Thank you, thank you both for this wonderful wonderful episode is mean.
623
01:24:58.020 --> 01:25:05.370
Hong Lieu: Just just blessed to be a part of this kind of knowledge sharing just to to kind of soak in the wisdom that you brought sandrine me know just just an honor and a privilege thank.
624
01:25:05.370 --> 01:25:05.490
You.
625
01:25:06.540 --> 01:25:15.300
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: For asking me I was so excited I was so excited so I can, and I mean that was the genuine heart, so thank you very much thank you, thank you.
626
01:25:15.390 --> 01:25:23.670
Akil Hill: Is, we will have to have you back on because Hong and I both are avid boxing fans, and so we that will say that conversation for next time.
627
01:25:23.670 --> 01:25:30.720
Hong Lieu: So Hello well with, with this being pre recorded be posted later, can we get our PICs in for profit porter now.
628
01:25:31.620 --> 01:25:32.640
Akil Hill: Okay, we get.
629
01:25:33.510 --> 01:25:40.860
Hong Lieu: I mean come on there's no way you don't take, but in this fight, I mean I love the way porter fights you might see Joe frazier and a lot of ways, the way he gets in there.
630
01:25:41.070 --> 01:25:43.050
Hong Lieu: And kind of kind of dirties it up.
631
01:25:43.350 --> 01:25:44.760
Hong Lieu: Like it closes.
632
01:25:45.330 --> 01:25:51.090
Hong Lieu: He closes distance, as well as frazier used to I swear so he he can ugly any fight up cuz cuz but it's just like.
633
01:25:51.540 --> 01:25:52.170
Hong Lieu: It yeah.
634
01:25:52.680 --> 01:25:54.750
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: it's it's it's not pretty.
635
01:25:56.370 --> 01:25:57.990
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know it's it's wild.
636
01:25:58.080 --> 01:26:06.630
Hong Lieu: But but but but it's beautiful but sweet science is beautiful so so you have to ugly it up or he's gonna tear you apart, I mean Crawford is just great so.
637
01:26:06.810 --> 01:26:11.880
Hong Lieu: So if reported isn't able to ugly it up it's going to be a rough fight for him, so I feel like it has to be no wi fi and.
638
01:26:12.270 --> 01:26:24.480
Hong Lieu: And I don't pick porter to win, but I think they'll be close he's if he's never been in a fight that wasn't close but has he had to had to take it too much damage, I guess, the question is port has been in a lot of wars, at this point so.
639
01:26:24.630 --> 01:26:39.480
Akil Hill: It wouldn't even matter, though, because but it's that good I feel and i'm a little biased, because you know I grew up in nebraska so i'm going for the we're going from the going for but but man porter be he can make a fight dirty.
640
01:26:40.830 --> 01:26:57.690
Akil Hill: But it's like I always like leaning in with his head i'm like oh man let's like i'm more like standing a pocket let's see what it, how it, you know, but I gotta respect his craft to and I gotta respect porter's craft but i'm going in, but when but knockout in the seventh.
641
01:27:00.360 --> 01:27:07.530
Hong Lieu: I feel like I feel like if it does go knock out of that because it'll just be porter just just too many wars to do, which might do much mileage and I know.
642
01:27:08.850 --> 01:27:10.470
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: it's going the distance.
643
01:27:10.860 --> 01:27:13.650
Hong Lieu: Oh there it is all right.
644
01:27:13.770 --> 01:27:16.290
Hong Lieu: There it is that's what we need that that's what I wanted this.
645
01:27:19.470 --> 01:27:23.040
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And then, when it happens you're like huh he's learned something.
646
01:27:23.310 --> 01:27:25.410
Hong Lieu: More wisdom just more to be dropped.
647
01:27:25.650 --> 01:27:26.160
Hong Lieu: When he was.
648
01:27:26.430 --> 01:27:30.780
Hong Lieu: So so before we say goodbye officially any other anything else you want to plug anything you want to mention.
649
01:27:30.780 --> 01:27:33.150
Hong Lieu: about the program or anything else you're doing it at city college.
650
01:27:33.180 --> 01:27:34.140
Akil Hill: what's the next home game.
651
01:27:34.830 --> 01:27:36.420
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: We don't play at home till.
652
01:27:36.720 --> 01:27:38.310
Akil Hill: January I saw that.
653
01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:43.350
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah we're on the road, which is a great it's great learning for our freshmen so.
654
01:27:43.710 --> 01:27:52.470
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: You know, when you see the scores and we're losing just remember, we are getting better it's not about the x's and o's right now we want to get lots of w's in January.
655
01:27:52.980 --> 01:28:04.770
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Because our schedule this knock at ease we don't play easy teams like we have antelope valley sat tomorrow than we play fresno long beach riverside.
656
01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:06.750
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yikes.
657
01:28:06.810 --> 01:28:08.940
Akil Hill: You guys are in a tournament up in Santa Maria though right.
658
01:28:09.300 --> 01:28:12.060
Akil Hill: We are hancock hancock right okay yeah.
659
01:28:12.180 --> 01:28:21.720
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: And we open up oh mission we play mission, so I get to schedule the non conference how I want, and we have to play.
660
01:28:22.320 --> 01:28:36.240
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Better teams to get better you don't get better being someone by 30 and 40 you know you get better beating someone by one maybe losing to a better team, the plane hard, because we want to be really good in conference which starts January 5.
661
01:28:37.560 --> 01:28:41.160
Akil Hill: yep i'm going to be there January 5 ventura right.
662
01:28:41.400 --> 01:28:42.390
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: yeah ventura.
663
01:28:42.840 --> 01:28:46.380
Akil Hill: So bus so up and I saw a man we're trying to i'll try to.
664
01:28:48.150 --> 01:28:51.900
Akil Hill: Get everyone out to the game and support these great athletes.
665
01:28:51.960 --> 01:28:53.460
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: As well yeah years great.
666
01:28:53.490 --> 01:28:54.000
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: Great oh.
667
01:28:54.480 --> 01:28:56.580
Akil Hill: On January 5 man put it on your calendar.
668
01:28:56.580 --> 01:28:58.350
Hong Lieu: To i'll be there i'll make a point.
669
01:28:58.410 --> 01:28:59.520
Hong Lieu: i'll make a point to get out there.
670
01:28:59.970 --> 01:29:00.930
Akil Hill: All right.
671
01:29:01.020 --> 01:29:06.570
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: that's awesome you guys are awesome Thank you blessings blessings and have a great lesson.
672
01:29:07.110 --> 01:29:08.580
Hong Lieu: Thank you, as an honor Thank you.
673
01:29:08.910 --> 01:29:11.610
Hong Lieu: as well, thank you and happy holidays everyone else.
674
01:29:12.240 --> 01:29:13.290
Sandrine Rocher-Krul: is happy holiday.
675
01:29:13.350 --> 01:29:16.560
Hong Lieu: we'll see you soon, this was SBCC Vaquero Voices. take care y'all peace.